Peace and Love, the real Star?

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Ace Rimmer
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Peace and Love, the real Star?

Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:48 pm

Ok, so hi.there and Braddock start up a 1v1 with Peace and Love and myself spectating. I want to say the Legend of MVPE and (MOR) were there too, but don't remember. hi.there gets Asia while Braddock gets USSR. I casually mention that in 1v1 Asia vs USSR, the Star of India has never been beaten (when I've used it). I then, also casually, mention that several other players have tried and failed even knowing I was using the Star. Hyperion beat it once in 1v1, but he was Europe and that took out the sub equation.

Anyway, we get into a discussion on whether or not the Star can be defeated and Peace and Love (I think) gets confused and challenges me. I of course say ok, because I like challenges. I say confused because I think she thought I was saying I could win against it when I was saying nobody could win against it if it's managed properly. For clarification, here is the proper setup...

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Now, true the name refers to the silo formation, but in order to make the formation the most effective, you need to properly compliment it with max subs, max carriers, and airbases tucked in nice and close. This allows several things.
  • Quick unloading of all subs at Defcon 1 in a safe pocket of protection.
    • This in turn allows quick deployment of empty subs in anti sub mode.
    • You are also already in striking range of most Russian cities
  • Maximum protection from bombers/nukes from any angle with the combined forces of every fighter in your arsenal in one spot.
  • Allows for multiple bomber strategies.
    • Multiple medium sized raids.
    • Multiple simultaneous angles of attack.
    • One extremely large wave at a time.
    • Non-stop waves, if well coordinated.
  • Takes advantage of the land setup, Russia has to hide it's silos away from cites while you get to hide amongst them.
  • Puts the victory timer on your side.

You can place surface ships in any order you like, but I've found the above to be the most efficient. Small force of battleships on the left for encroaching planes and the majority on the right to stall any attempt to invade from Indonesia.

Ok, so we try it. Peace and Love gets Asia and I take USSR. The first game I really had no idea what to do. I had said the only possible solution is to make a bold but risky mad dash with your entire fleet through Indonesia, but wasn't too sure if there would be enough ships left to make a difference once they got through. I gave it a try anyway. Defcon 5 and I put several scout battleships in the pacific and waited. Defcon 4 and I put some subs under Peace and Love's battleships. Heh, she had almost mirrored my scouts with scouts of her own. However, she then reinforced her scouts with more battleships. I counted them up and then placed the rest of my fleet in the pacific ready to make the dash.

In the end, I got pretty close score wise but wasn't able to overcome all the disadvantages of Russia. However, one thing I did learn was that even having no land support for my navy, I was able to make a big enough dent to begin to believe I had found the answer.

Reluctantly, she agreed to try a second time. We did the same dance, but this time I placed fewer scouts and moved my silos west. I also made a faster run at Indonesia and painstakingly calculated every nuke I used so I didn't suffer the same 6m deficit as before. Both games I was able to scout and destroy an airbase or two out too far west. Although, this game I had a bit of luck that saved me. I made a couple of minor runs south west towards Africa leaving one or two bombers in naval mode for radar and came upon a massive bomber wave heading the exact opposite direction. A few tactical nukes and her bomber force was diminished fairly quickly, at least it seemed I landed a couple of good hits.

Another difference in this game and the first... The first attempt, the moment she opened up her silos, I did as well and attempted to get at the cities in India. I was hoping that would be enough. Having India heavily protected is the main benefit of the Star. The second game I killed all of her silos first, then used mine. Both were very good games. I also learned that one should more or less ignore the temptation to stop and continuously bomb east Asia. I knew that was all part of the strategy behind the Star set up, but it didn't occur to me to not fall for my own tricks until after I did. The reason you don't stop (with your fleet) and bomb east Asia no matter how tempting it may be is that you need to get the most firepower you can into the Indian. This way, you can hit those oh so hard to get at Indian cities from below and hopefully take out silos there too. Then, you can use your own silos (assuming they're left) freely against east Asia.

Had Peace and Love not lost so many of her battleships at the start and instead tucked them in near the safety of India, I think I would have lost the second game as well. Thus, I still think that a very well managed Star of India is unbeatable, in a 1v1 Asia vs Russia scenario. If you doubt it, just think about this for a moment. I knew exactly what she where she was and still (because of luck more or less) only won by 2 points the second time. Plus, I've had others try it against me knowing where I was and they failed as well.

First try.
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Second try. That last white flash is what put me over the top. Before that last nuke, it was 177/177 with me on top. That's how close it was.
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Postby Hyperion » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:32 pm

Pfft, i sincerely hope that first screenshot of the star of India isn't how you place your installations :? like 3 silos, 1 airbase and 1 radar on top of cities...personally i think i could quite easily destroy the star of India and prevent your early sub launch at defcon 1 :roll: but these are only opinions, i'll have to prove it sometime :wink: just like the Asia vs Africa scenerio.

Oh and the star of India is useless against Europe as all silo missiles will pass over onto your eastern cities, all you have to do is mass bomber rush the Indian cities from above USSR :roll: but again, only opinion. (like i say, i'm an aggressive player, i can't stand to sit around waiting in defence)
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:36 pm

First, they're not on top of cities, it just appears that way.

Second, I already said it doesn't work against Hyperions Europe. :wink: Although, I could have won that game had I been a little more patient.

Third and last, many many players have tried the "nuke from above with hordes of bombers" trick. It's not good enough.
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Postby Hyperion » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:38 pm

Ok...so if you placed your set up as such and put yourself on ceasefire with me and allowed me to send 1 single nuke at Bombay, you're telling me it wouldn't damage your silo? or it's nuclear stockpile? :wink: I personally save nukes on taking out installations by targetting cities if they're right on top of them :roll: it's more efficient.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:39 pm

Hyperion wrote:Ok...so if you placed your set up as such and put yourself on ceasefire with me and allowed me to send 1 single nuke at Bombay, you're telling me it wouldn't damage your silo? or it's nuclear stockpile? :wink:

Exactly.
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Postby Hyperion » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:40 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:
Hyperion wrote:Ok...so if you placed your set up as such and put yourself on ceasefire with me and allowed me to send 1 single nuke at Bombay, you're telling me it wouldn't damage your silo? or it's nuclear stockpile? :wink:

Exactly.


I'm skeptical :shock: , we shall try this sometime :wink:
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Postby MikeTheWookiee » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:42 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:
Hyperion wrote:Ok...so if you placed your set up as such and put yourself on ceasefire with me and allowed me to send 1 single nuke at Bombay, you're telling me it wouldn't damage your silo? or it's nuclear stockpile? :wink:

Exactly.


It does look mighty close to me. Although I certainly do not want to volunteer to try.
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Postby ynbniar » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:51 pm

Has anyone tried carpet bombing your navy?

The armpits of Asia somebody called it...

:?:
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Postby Hyperion » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:53 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:Third and last, many many players have tried the "nuke from above with hordes of bombers" trick. It's not good enough.


I will so gladly prove that it is good enough :wink: even if you know i'm going to do it i'm about 90% sure i can make it work. The other 10% accounting for if you change your set up :P i'm actually quite excited to try this game with you sometime :D if you'd like :roll:
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Postby Hyperion » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:54 pm

ynbniar wrote:Has anyone tried carpet bombing your navy?

The armpits of Asia somebody called it...

:?:


Ace is very efficient with fighters and from what he's saying and his layout i'm assuming he thinks he could protect from any bombers before his sub nukes got away :) which i tend to agree with.

I have another tactic for dealing with his pesky subs :twisted:
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:57 pm

Hyperion wrote:
Ace Rimmer wrote:Third and last, many many players have tried the "nuke from above with hordes of bombers" trick. It's not good enough.


I will so gladly prove that it is good enough :wink: even if you know i'm going to do it i'm about 90% sure i can make it work. The other 10% accounting for if you change your set up :P i'm actually quite excited to try this game with you sometime :D if you'd like :roll:

Sure, if you can prove it can be done. I'd like to see the holes in my setup :wink:

Ok,

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Postby Hyperion » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:03 pm

I'd like you to reproduce the experiment whilst zoomed out :P but i will generally for now accept that you were right on that issue :roll: however i still think i could take out ALL your installations and Indian cities fairly quickly :) if i don't manage i'll publicly humiliate myself :roll:
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:09 pm

Hyperion wrote:I'd like you to reproduce the experiment whilst zoomed out :P but i will generally for now accept that you were right on that issue :roll: however i still think i could take out ALL your installations and Indian cities fairly quickly :) if i don't manage i'll publicly humiliate myself :roll:

Well, that wouldn't be true to my style. I always place the star whilst zoomed completely in. Really, the only time I don't zoom all the way in is when there are no cites around.

I'm still curious as to how you'd take out the subs.

Using your Silos would be a mistake, because I'd have armed bombers up and if any of them were in range of the subs, I'd re-target against your silos with my subs. Not to mention the fact that my silos would take out any nukes on the way in. You're right about bombers, I always make sure that I am ready to take on the largest swarm of bombers you can muster from any and all angles. Other than those two methods. I don't see how you could.
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Postby Hyperion » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:38 pm

I meant just zooming out to nuke Bombay, not to place your units :) ...i'm just curious to see if your silo is still unharmed at distance, i realise it sounds stupid :roll: but you see silos take damage from 'appearing' to close to a city when infact (like your Bombay silo) if you zoom in, they are not that close at all.

As for my taking out your sub launch, it's a secret :wink: (giant squid :D ), i'm even questioning if i'd need to take them out at all now :? my plan being so swift and organised (if it worked, god forbid if it didn't :? :? :? ), the sub damage might be acceptable and you've played against me before :P , you know i'd be prapared for incoming bombers as much as you would :wink:

If we ever play this, we should do it on a dedcon.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:57 pm

Hyperion wrote:
Ace Rimmer wrote:Third and last, many many players have tried the "nuke from above with hordes of bombers" trick. It's not good enough.


I will so gladly prove that it is good enough :wink: even if you know i'm going to do it i'm about 90% sure i can make it work. The other 10% accounting for if you change your set up :P i'm actually quite excited to try this game with you sometime :D if you'd like :roll:

Big secret, eh? Are you not so sure anymore? :wink:

Edit: definitely a dedcon, one of Berts password protected one's. Those have no realtime budget.
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