Terry Jones' plan to burn the Qu'ran on September 11

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Terry Jones' plan to burn the Qu'ran...what opinions do you have?

He's doing the right thing! He's preaching!!!
1
10%
Maybe there is a better solution than burning books...
2
20%
He shouldn't be doing it. That is wrong.
6
60%
He's fucked...
1
10%
 
Total votes: 10
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Terry Jones' plan to burn the Qu'ran on September 11

Postby Admiral Yoshi » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:08 am

Terry Jones' plan to burn the Qu'ran...any opinions in it?
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Postby DTNC Vicious » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:54 am

well... i have a really strong opinion on this matter, he does have a right to do it but he shouldn't do it, he could be jeopardizing the lifes of us troops that are active in iraq/afganistan or any other muslim country
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Postby allen » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:24 am

It's his books, not mine, that he's burning. I could care less what he does in his free time.
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Postby Montyphy » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:47 am

Haven't you heard? It was cancelled yesturday.

allen wrote:I could care less what he does in his free time.


Surely you mean you couldn't care less. [size=0]That silly Americanism needs to be eradicated :P[/size]
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Postby Cooper42 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:46 am

When I read the title I thought you were talking about the comedian/director/author/Python Terry Jones. Shame.

Anyway, people should burn what they like. Even if they are intellectual morons who can't differentiate religious texts from violent dogma.

I'd quite like a mass religious text burning myself, but for very different reasons to the Reverend.
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Postby zjoere » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:20 pm

Montyphy wrote:Haven't you heard? It was cancelled yesturday.

allen wrote:I could care less what he does in his free time.


Surely you mean you couldn't care less. [size=0]That silly Americanism needs to be eradicated :P[/size]


Maybe he did actually mean he could care less since he cared enough to make the post.

Personally I wouldn't have minded it. You can't stop people from doing something they have a right to do.
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Postby Montyphy » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:48 pm

zjoere wrote:
Montyphy wrote:Haven't you heard? It was cancelled yesturday.

allen wrote:I could care less what he does in his free time.


Surely you mean you couldn't care less. [size=0]That silly Americanism needs to be eradicated :P[/size]


Maybe he did actually mean he could care less since he cared enough to make the post.


1. Your reasoning is illogical and nonsensical.
2. When used without the negative the statement is intended to be sarcastic, but therein lies the problem, people fail to notice the sarcasm just as you did. I take it you didn't read the article I secretly linked to?

zjoere wrote:You can't stop people from doing something they have a right to do.


That's an awfully nice straw man you're making there. EDIT: Oh right, this bit wasn't aimed at me...
Last edited by Montyphy on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby vanarbulax » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:00 pm

For those who say "I could care less".

Also book burning is stupid, but I can't stop you from doing it.
Last edited by vanarbulax on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Feud » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:25 pm

When I lived in Florida and Alabama there were Churches that routinely held Book of Mormon burnings, and one that even yearly burned missionaries in effigy (till fire marshall finally stepped in).

So, with that in mind, the Koran burning : Is it stupid? Absolutely. Unchristian? I believe so. Surprising? Not really.

But, for the sake of giggles, I'm going to play devils advocate for a moment:

We have laws about "fighting words" and inciting riots, basically that your rights to freedom of speech do not allow you to say anything in any situation if what you're saying creates a potentially dangerous situation for the public or another citizen. So, if one cannot lawfully create a dangerous situation by inciting panic or inviting violent response, might those same laws be applied to Koran burning, if such might reasonably be determined to create a climate of public danger? If not this particular case, might it other different circumstance?
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Postby xander » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:00 pm

Feud wrote:We have laws about "fighting words" and inciting riots, basically that your rights to freedom of speech do not allow you to say anything in any situation if what you're saying creates a potentially dangerous situation for the public or another citizen. So, if one cannot lawfully create a dangerous situation by inciting panic or inviting violent response, might those same laws be applied to Koran burning, if such might reasonably be determined to create a climate of public danger? If not this particular case, might it other different circumstance?

So, by that logic, the constitutional rights of Americans only apply as long as there is not a bunch of wackos somewhere in the world threatening to kill people if those rights are exercised? I'm sorry, I don't buy it. Limitations on the right to free expression come in when there is an immediate and direct expectation that violence will occur. For instance, if I call you a mother fucking moron, then make claims about the so-so head that your mother gave last night, while yelling three inches from your face, those might be considered fighting words. If I tell you that Ahmed Q. Muslim down the street is a filthy raghead, and that you should go set his house on fire, that is inciting you to violence. Burning a bunch of books, no matter how distasteful, is neither.

Moreover, I find the claim that a book burning in Florida is going to cause further violence in the Middle East to be fucking ridiculous. No one that hasn't been radicalized by years of Predator and Reaper drone attacks, car bombings, shootings---in short, American occupation---is going to be radicalized by some racist bigot in the US burning a few books. People who have already been radicalized might use it as an excuse to commit acts of violence, but they were almost certainly going to commit acts of violence, anyway. The book burning is not realistically putting any American troops at risk.

In fact, the people that I worry most about are Muslims in the US. Book burnings have a tendency to fuel the anger of the people burning the books, or the people that agree with the book burners. Even then burning books is not an incitement to riot, nor does it constitute fighting words. People who use a book burning as an excuse to commit acts of violence need to be held responsible for the actions that they actually commit---some guy burning a few books is not responsible for their actions.

The correct way to deal with speech that you don't like is to mock it or ignore it. It is inappropriate to force or coerce a person into silence because there is a possibility that some wackos on the other side of the world might be offended.

xander

EDIT: This, for instance, is a correct response:
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Postby jelco » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:24 pm

xander wrote:Moreover, I find the claim that a book burning in Florida is going to cause further violence in the Middle East to be fucking ridiculous. No one that hasn't been radicalized by years of Predator and Reaper drone attacks, car bombings, shootings---in short, American occupation---is going to be radicalized by some racist bigot in the US burning a few books. People who have already been radicalized might use it as an excuse to commit acts of violence, but they were almost certainly going to commit acts of violence, anyway. The book burning is not realistically putting any American troops at risk.

Which is more or less exactly why saying violent films/video games are responsible for violent youth (especially the murderous kind) makes little to no sense. You can't stop a couple of crazies from doing what they were already planning to do, all you're doing with these ridiculous ideas is increasing the waiting time. Of course, cutting down on these influences will have some effect. There are some people who really are susceptible to these influences and start imitating as a result without thinking. However those people, bluntly put, are not sane. If you're talking about sane people, you're either just giving them an excuse, or you're talking about young kinds who know no better than following example and doing what they're told (which is why we have age restrictions instead of overall bans, Germany and Australia). This is also the stupidest excuse ever for gun control by the way - shootings don't just increase because guns are available, there's much more to it. (Gun control itself may hold some sort of value but that's for another discussion.)

xander wrote:In fact, the people that I worry most about are Muslims in the US. Book burnings have a tendency to fuel the anger of the people burning the books, or the people that agree with the book burners. Even then burning books is not an incitement to riot, nor does it constitute fighting words. People who use a book burning as an excuse to commit acts of violence need to be held responsible for the actions that they actually commit---some guy burning a few books is not responsible for their actions.

The correct way to deal with speech that you don't like is to mock it or ignore it. It is inappropriate to force or coerce a person into silence because there is a possibility that some wackos on the other side of the world might be offended.

Of course he will not be directly responsible, that would be silly. That being said, there is a reason so many people have expressed their discontent/disgust/whatever at this plan. It may be true that another thing will pop up soon enough that would incite equal or greater anger in some particularly nasty people than this will, but that doesn't make the denouncement of this preceding incident meaningless. First, all the big powers want to openly show the muslims that they aren't supporters of these kinds of anti-islam practices. Second, imagine what would happen if no political time was spent on this - it would cause a lot more unrest that it currently does. Third, increasing the wait time for the next big attack or whatever isn't that bad. Keeping that timer away from 0 for as long as possible is of course a way to stop it. If anything does happen you'll at least know you didn't give them any justification for it.

In addition to that, doing it on 9/11 is a tricky idea. Considering the States are doing a lot to improve muslim relations (like how New York has started seriously considering a mosque on Ground Zero) they'll want to keep it that way, and in the days before and after 9/11 the tension on this subject will be heightened. Expect a lot of propaganda for the good the government has planned, but also a lot of Americans protesting this in the spirit of "look at what they did to us that still leaves a scar on us after 9 years etc etc". Anything that can influence the public opinion the wrong way is avoided as much as possible. This would still have gotten Jones a lot of flak had he done it in February, but this time period does bring some extra emotional and political stakes to the table.

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Postby Jordy... » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:13 pm

If Allah existed and he didn't want this to happen he would prevent it from happening DUUH, so all these moslim's are just scared that:

A. Allah does want this to happen, meaning mohamed must have messed up somehwere.
B. Allah does not exist.
C. Allah is not allmighty powerfull.

So... wait sec, it DIDN'T happen?!

Seriously though, I think all opinions are correct, it just depends on where you come from. If a moslim says he shouldn't do it cause he'll be offended, then yea, he's right, don't do it you'll offend him. If a dog says yea, we should do it, cause we have the right too, then yea sure, do it. I don't think these 2 opinions are in conflict with each other.

Personally, I would like it too happen, don't they burn american flags or whatever there as well? Don't these people cry for the death of israel and america as well?
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Postby Xocrates » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:39 pm

jelco wrote:(like how New York has started seriously considering a mosque on Ground Zero)

Except they haven't. First because it's not at Ground zero, second because, as far as I can gather, it's not government backed, and third because it's not an actual mosque.
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Postby zjoere » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:02 pm

Xocrates wrote:
jelco wrote:(like how New York has started seriously considering a mosque on Ground Zero)

Except they haven't. First because it's not at Ground zero, second because, as far as I can gather, it's not government backed, and third because it's not an actual mosque.


Looks like you beat me to linking this cracked article on the subject.

@Monthyphy: I didn't catch the hidden link while quoting you. I personally wasn't aware of that use of the sentence.
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Postby (MOR) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:07 pm

Who want to know about Terry Jones maybe should back to Germany"Cologne".. He was there from years ago before leaving it after doing so many trouble.

This not the first time.. So who will care ?


Edit: for more infos check this http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/politik/309848/309849.php
Last edited by (MOR) on Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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