When the hell are the bugs gonna be patched?

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ditoa
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Postby ditoa » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:17 am

you have a valid point about retail software and patches however you are talking about games that are made by multi-million dollar companies like ID Software and can employ hundreds if not thousands of staff to just program the game and patches, and have a totally different team working on addons and bonus disk's.

IntroVersion software is a very very small goup of people, they dont have the time or resources to fix the game AND great a bonus disk at the same time.

Also for the money they are getting (£15 a game compared to £30-50 for quake 3 arena) i think a little more time is acceptable.

I do however think they should put the bugs on higher priority, mainly as alot of easy to fix (such as the spelling mistakes!).

The main think they need to sort out is how slow the game can get when the world map is active! I have the game on a P4 - 1700Ghz PC with 768MB RAM with win2k but the system still slows down when i load the world map.
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Jabberwocky
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Postby Jabberwocky » Mon Feb 04, 2002 12:52 pm

1700 ghz!!!!! Can I get some of that???

You mean 1.7 ghz or 1700 mhz right?
There is always free cheese in a mousetrap.
Slayer_uplink
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Postby Slayer_uplink » Mon Feb 04, 2002 1:18 pm

Hmm... I'm going to have to be controversial and go with patch-requesters on this one.

The bonus CD is all well and good, but it's finished. Chris said so. And although I haven't had any of these major bugs people talk about (Lucky me!), I can understand why the people who do would prefer the team was working on a bug-fix patch, rather than a bonus disc that not too many people will ever see.

I'm not saying Introversion are a bad company, because they aren't. I'm not saying I need the patch NOW, DAMMIT, because I don't. Things will take time, and I understand this. My only real point here is that, much as I respect the game, the company, and the guys there, I think the next patch should've been a priority ABOVE the bonus CD. Get the major bugs done and dusted, then start working on the round circle of delight that is the Bonus CD. If nothing else, give a patch with what you've done so far, something to quieten all those people screaming for scroll-bars. ;-)

All academic now of course... The Bonus CD is done, so they'll be working on the patch now... But I just thought I should stick my big hooter in this one, and let people know how I feel. Which can be summarised as this; the patch should have come first, but it didn't, so lets just move on shall we?
"My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for."
Extract from The Mentor's manifesto.
Icepick
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Postby Icepick » Mon Feb 04, 2002 1:24 pm

ditoa: Your slow map problem maybe fixed by deleting opengl32.dll from the Uplink directory... it works for most people on high end machines, as it lets the computers own opengl take over.

And i do agree that the patches should have been addressed before the bonus cd, but since most of the bugs arent really a major problem, and those that are occur rarely, i can understand them wanting to do the bonus cd first.
My only complaint is that they said the cd was finised nearly a month now (if memory serves) and we still havent seen the thing.

(Edited by Icepick at 11:27 pm on Feb. 3, 2002)
CGI Timeout
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Postby CGI Timeout » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:19 pm

if I knew this was a beta I would have never paid for it!!!
Icepick
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Postby Icepick » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:21 pm

Well thats ok, because it isnt a beta, it just has some bugs, like every other piece of software in the world.
CGI Timeout
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Postby CGI Timeout » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:28 pm

How long does it take to patch it up though?
I'm not trying to be a dick here ...but come on.
Icepick
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Postby Icepick » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:29 pm

I know it has taken a long time, no one is denying that, but the patch doesnt just contain bug fixes, it contains new features for the game as well. And you have to account for the fact that there are only 4 people working on it, not a huge staff of maybe 100 people like the large companies.
CGI Timeout
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Postby CGI Timeout » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:35 pm

I would say: skip the new features and make the game work the way it is.  I'm sure all the new features will be great but they can wait until the next sub-release.  Just MO.


...CGI Timeout™
Icepick
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Postby Icepick » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:42 pm

I agree with you, but i can also understand Introversions reasoning. Think how cool it will be when they finally release the first patch, and it fixes loads of bugs and adds loads of features to the game, making the game hugely more playable. They are going for the general effect that releasing one huge patch will have, and it will be a big effect.
Still, it would be nice to know when we can expect the patch...
Jabberwocky
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Postby Jabberwocky » Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:23 pm

You have two approaches-

You code 5-6 different patches and release them one at a time. This means that for each patch you make from then on, you have to make one that patches from 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3... so on. Which is a major pain in the ass.

So there's a real reason to, if you have a bunch of ideas, you put them in at once.

And yeah, you are being a dick. In general, when someone is working on something, screaming will do one or two things-

1. Make them wonder why they're making software for whiny assholes.

2. Make them stop caring about you and work slower.

Shouting "FASTER!" wont do jack shit. Offer construtive stuff only.

CGI, have you coded? Have you worked with a team on a major piece of software?

There's a reason they arent calling you for advice, you know...
There is always free cheese in a mousetrap.
Arsentek
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Postby Arsentek » Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:43 pm

You know for all the people that want a patch I have one simple solution. All you have to do is fix it yourself. Ohh. That's right you can't. You don't have the advanced knowledge that it takes to do code the way these guys are doing. All you can do is complain about how they should fix this and how you shouldn't have paid for this. Well you know what? (By the way that's a rhetorical question so don't reply yet.) Ohh that's right you are too ingnorant to know what kind of skill and work goes into something like this. You didn't have to pay for the game. There was a demo. You know that think under downloads. The main difference between the full game and the demo is physical things. Such as missions and objects(programs and parts). The other difference is there is more of a storyline. Most the bugs that are on the full game are on the demo too. These bugs are still no reason to get your panties in a twist. If you have problems further burn the cd and shut the door to this part of your life.
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Postby Slayer_uplink » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:40 pm

Arsentek, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a while, so before I continue I would like to point out that I like the game and the company. What I'm about to say is only theory, to show up how bad you've messed up. It is not an indicator of what I actually think of the company or game.

(Actually, I should point out to everyone that the main reason I'm taking the stance I am is simply because it seems to be one that needs defending, rather than one I fully believe. I'm merely attempting to be an equalizing force, if you will.)

*Begin Devil's Advocate*

If you buy a car, and the steering wheel breaks off and you crash, are you within your rights to complain? Of course not. After all, you couldn't make a better car, could you?
What if you go to a restaurant, and get this really expensive and tasty meal? Problem is, it gives you food poisoning. Of course, you can't complain... after all, you couldn't cook something that tasty!

That, right there, is a world you seem to believe we live in.
It doesn't work like that.
People can spot when someone has got something wrong, even if they couldn't do better themselves. The point is, we haven't TRIED to pull off something like this, so whether we could or not is irrelevant.

*End Devil's Advocate*

On a secondary note, I find it ironic that you decided to have a whine about the people whining.  This is a FORUM. It's for DEBATE. You can't just go insulting people because you don't agree with them. OK?
And if you really have to, at least tell people how unintelligent they are in an intelligent manner... If you can't spell words such as ignorant properly, don't use them.

One last thing; Jabberwocky, so far it seems that the 'patches' take the form of simply replacing the primary .exe with a new one. If this continues to be the case then there is no problem making sure it patches from version to version the way you said. The only way I can see this being different is in replacing the graphic for the version number with a new one, which isn't quite the same thing.

Did I mention that I honestly do really REALLY like the game? Just making sure people understand where I'm coming from, that's all.
"My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for."
Extract from The Mentor's manifesto.
Jabberwocky
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Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Feb 05, 2002 2:41 am

There's a problem with your examples-

You do not suffer bodily harm when the game crashes. This is not a piece of saftey equipment or a piece of food. It is a piece of code.
There is always free cheese in a mousetrap.
chade
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Postby chade » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:09 am

    Well it looks like the Sycophants have swamped this thread. But here goes a last ditch effort to attempt to balance it out.
    I think there is a legitiamate gripe to here as far as the patch goes. I do know the limitations of Introversion as a small company, and I think they're talanted designers with a good product. But, when they start work on a Bonus CD without fixing the main game first you have to wonder if that was really a good way to prioritize your time. New features should come after bug fixes are well under control, the first patch was released too soon to be really effictive, and It was a bad call to work on the bonus CD before the patch. Now I am pretty sure Introversion has already realized this and I think they learned an important lession.
    So what to do now....Well they are already hard at work on the patch (I hope) and all we can do is wait, and hope next time planing is done a little better.

(Edited by chade at 6:10 am on Feb. 4, 2002)

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