[Suggestion] Disease/Illness

[Selek]

First post. First suggestion. Let's see how this goes.

I saw some people touching on this idea to some extent but nothing specifically illness/disease related. I have a feeling medical wards and morgues will have little use once there is a better method of organizing guards and inmates to decrease fights and riots. To give more depth to the doctor NPC and the rooms themselves, I feel disease or illness could be implemented.

Since we have (near) complete control over how healthy (think hygiene and hunger) our inmates are, we could have moderate control over how illness and disease spreads through a large population generally confined together for very long periods of time.

[For the NPC level stuff and "unless this" stuff about NPCs scroll down to "NPC Levels"]

This is how I picture disease in PA:

1. A new prisoner arrives with an illness or develops one from improper care (hygiene and hunger)
2. If the illness is not immediately visible it can spread through the cell block to inmates in close proximity with each other.
It can also spread through use of the same objects (shower heads, toilets, beds, workbenches, meal tables, phones, etc.)
3. When the illness is noticed either through random, scheduled, or player specified tests (drug tests?), the player can choose to [A]quarantine the inmate (if room/NPC requirements are met) or [B]allow them to continue daily regimes.
A4. Inmate is taken to quarantine cell and "monitored" for symptoms while samples are sent off-site for identification of illness (unless doctor can recognize it)
B4. Inmate potentially spreads a serious illness to other inmates and potentially causes deaths or large treatment costs to the player
A5. While symptoms are monitored, other inmates with similar symptoms are automatically quarantined
A6. Once the illness is identified the player can purchase outside help for treatment (unless NPC doctor is above a certain level)


Instead of specific illness/disease names, to allow for more random and unexpected disease spreading/symptoms, diseases could be separated into "levels" or "tiers." When you recieve a response identifying your inmates' illness it is given to you as a "Disease level X" format. Medical staff could be required to be one level above the disease level for identification, and two levels above the disease for immediate identification and treatment.

[NPC Levels]

This may have been suggested somewhere else as I only did any sort of searching for the "disease" idea.

I mentioned NPC levels because I feel the current system for unlocking NPCs is somewhat lacking. I suggest a system where all NPCs are unlocked at the start of a new prison. These NPCs would be low leveled/inexperienced NPCs and would be fairly mediocre when it comes to any task that isn't specific. This would include, in the case of workmen, slow build speeds and a slight look of laziness, as well as, for guards, a less watchful eye and a slower response than might be necessary. Because they are so unskilled, they would of course be paid less. This would allow for new prisons to keep the same daily budget while being able to hire in quantity rather than quality.

This opens many more possibilities. As you "research" or "unlock" higher level NPCs you still have access to the lower level NPCs as well. This would allow you to staff different areas differently. For example, say security tiers for prisoners were added later (low, medium and high), you would be able to put more lower level guards in the low security areas to balance with the higher number of low security inmates your prison would have, while you have the higher level guards watching your high risk inmates.

You might be wondering what this might have to do with diseases in prisons. Well, an unknown or previously unencountered disease may begin to spread in your prison. This could be recognized and taken care of effectively by higher level medical staff, while low level medical staff would only be able to prevent spreading while waiting for off-site results to even know how to treat it properly. Other possibilities include kitchen staff. Low level, untrained, possibly uncaring kitchen staff could easily lack in proper hygiene themselves and improperly prepare food. This could cause a simple case of prison wide food poisoning that could look incredibly similar to a serious and quickly spreading disease.

On a quick side note, I mentioned drug tests as an option to identify illnesses in inmates. I don't know if it has been suggested before (it seems like something that has been), but drugs and other contraband dealings may add even more depth to inmate interactions. Something I just thought of as I wrote this was the possibility for a family/friend visiting center. Trying to identify people acting suspicious and possibly smuggling in things for prisoners might be an interesting addition, though that might be taking this a bit far.


Let me know if I stopped making sense at some point. I honestly don't have the patience to reread all of that at the moment. x]

Edit:
Thinking on symptoms right now. I feel like it symptoms would need to be very obvious (visual) but only if you are looking for them. Things like thought bubbles of fire which could possibly indicate fever if you also notice they are moving slowly and staying in bed all day. Other things like stomach illnesses could include the skin turning green, and a lot of time spent sitting with their head over the toilets.

[Ste881]

Interesting ideas. I would think that as there is fire in the game the thought bubble might need to be a thermometer. It might get a bit confusing if heating is implemented in the game though. Maybe it's symbol could be a red or blue radiator?

[ronanc]

I've actually suggested this before in relation to food poisoning. You've gone into a lot more detail though which is great. I'm all about seeing the prisoners as a living, breathing collective entity. As a player I'd like there to be mechanics in the gameplay whereby if I mess up, prisoners die.

Disease and illness could tie in really nicely with the utilities and cooking systems. Too cold? Hypothermia. Too hot? Dehydration. We may need a more fleshed out climate system in the game for that though. Hygiene could be the main factor in controlling the spread of disease. This could mean putting prisoners in single cells (no holding cells or bunk beds), showering regularly (bigger electricity & water bills), fresh laundry daily, etc.

Not sure how the devs feel about all this or even if it would be fun to play but there sure is a lot of scope to play around with the idea.

[crummett]

if prisoners die i vote for a Theme Hospital throw back where the grim reaper rocks up to take them away!

[Selek]

Interesting ideas. I would think that as there is fire in the game the thought bubble might need to be a thermometer. It might get a bit confusing if heating is implemented in the game though. Maybe it's symbol could be a red or blue radiator?

I like to think there should be the obvious game mechanics and the subtle mechanics that require thought. I think an illness spreading through a population of prisoners shouldn't be something the game is shouting out to you through simply understood medical icons (at least on higher difficulties). I thought fire might be a subtle way of showing a fever because it can lead a player to believe different things about the prisoner. There is already a fire mechanic in the game, and the emergency response to this mechanic has already been announced through the stickied poll. These factors could lead the player to think "this prisoner is planning on burning something down" while not taking into account the other symptoms such as slow moving to other areas or staying in bed even though another specific task is scheduled.

I've actually suggested this before in relation to food poisoning. You've gone into a lot more detail though which is great. I'm all about seeing the prisoners as a living, breathing collective entity. As a player I'd like there to be mechanics in the gameplay whereby if I mess up, prisoners die.

Disease and illness could tie in really nicely with the utilities and cooking systems. Too cold? Hypothermia. Too hot? Dehydration. We may need a more fleshed out climate system in the game for that though. Hygiene could be the main factor in controlling the spread of disease. This could mean putting prisoners in single cells (no holding cells or bunk beds), showering regularly (bigger electricity & water bills), fresh laundry daily, etc.

Not sure how the devs feel about all this or even if it would be fun to play but there sure is a lot of scope to play around with the idea.

Oh yes! I saw the post and included food poisoning because of it. I just forgot who to credit xD

The idea of temperature control honestly seems a bit pointless to me. I love the current power/water systems as they are because you have to take into account, ahead of time, the costs and you must determine if going with x system is more efficient than y system, then what about z system? Climate control, even in our own houses, is mainly just another set it and forget it type of deal. The only limiting factor is power costs. So a utility that has a very minor connection with another utility and only limits the player more based on wallet size seems pointless. I think I could be rambling. Oh! I did like (I think it was) your idea on damaged water and electrical utilities coming together to cause more problems.

if prisoners die i vote for a Theme Hospital throw back where the grim reaper rocks up to take them away!

I think all things humorous put into the final version of the game should be surprises. Anything else could be modded in. I like subtle references.

Also what are all of your thoughts in the NPC system thing? I haven't seen someone else suggest it, but I also have yet to do any searching for it.

[ronanc]

The idea of temperature control honestly seems a bit pointless to me.

You might have missed the part where I said we need a more fleshed out climate control system for this. Think seasonal effects (snow/heat waves) or prisons in hot humid climates where prisoners could get heat stroke, tropical diseases, etc. Set it/forget it seems to miss the mark if I am to keep an eye on monthly power bills whilst satisfying my prisoners basic needs. And needless to say, controlling the temperature in your own home is not the same as managing it in a maximum security prison.

I think as a player I'd find the game to be a more complete experience if the different systems had knock-on effects on each other. The interplay of temperature and prisoner well being seems fairly obvious and it's the part of the foundation of Maslow's hierarchy of needs which we know Chris plans to use.

Also what are all of your thoughts in the NPC system thing? I haven't seen someone else suggest it, but I also have yet to do any searching for it.

This has already been suggested. I'm all for it.

[Selek]

The idea of temperature control honestly seems a bit pointless to me.

You might have missed the part where I said we need a more fleshed out climate control system for this. Think seasonal effects (snow/heat waves) or prisons in hot humid climates where prisoners could get heat stroke, tropical diseases, etc. Set it/forget it seems to miss the mark if I am to keep an eye on monthly power bills whilst satisfying my prisoners basic needs. And needless to say, controlling the temperature in your own home is not the same as managing it in a maximum security prison.

I think as a player I'd find the game to be a more complete experience if the different systems had knock-on effects on each other. The interplay of temperature and prisoner well being seems fairly obvious and it's the part of the foundation of Maslow's hierarchy of needs which we know Chris plans to use.

Also what are all of your thoughts in the NPC system thing? I haven't seen someone else suggest it, but I also have yet to do any searching for it.

This has already been suggested. I'm all for it.

I would love to see the climate system and climate control system ideas evolve but I will take my cozy spot on the fence for now . Glad to hear the NPC system has been suggested before. ^_^

[Safilpope]

I like this, perhaps some prisoners have pre-existing (non-infectious) medical conditions when they enter too? Like a diabetic guy has to go to the infirmary for his insulin every day, and a high hunger will affect his health.

[ikriz]

In the current release alpha 12, contraband of the category "poison" has been introduced. this implies that some prisoner is gunna get sick sometime soon

[Pogo]

I think the "poison" from contraband is probably not to get people sick, but rather to kill them.


And honestly... it'd be pretty easy for this healthcare system to just completely overwhelm the whole game and turn it from Prison Architect into Hospital Architect. I think it'd probably be best for the developers to shelve this idea, finish Prison Architect, and then use the PA engine along with some of the ideas in this thread and release a Hospital Architect game.

[SGrayWolf]

Yeah, the disease/illness suggestion (if implemented) shouldn't be made too complicated or in depth. We shouldn't take too much of our attention away from the Prison aspect of the game.

That said, seeing as there is medicine, drugs and poison brought into PA (so far) with contraband... it's likely something will go further with the condition of prisoners in the future so we definitely shouldn't disregard or shelf this idea/concept either.

Some of the earlier suggestions on this thread mentioning a more simplified structure (level x disease vs. level y solution) might work well and give the game more life, while giving the Infirmary, doctors, etc more use as well.

I recently bought Prison Architect and I'm loving it so far! I'm glad to be aboard the community and be an active member in determining where this awesome game can and will go!

[Nat3ski]

great idea OP. Skill levels for all staff would be good also, with a training room (just like Theme Hospital)

[Spectre Incarnate]

And honestly... it'd be pretty easy for this healthcare system to just completely overwhelm the whole game and turn it from Prison Architect into Hospital Architect.

A prison is a lot more like a hospital than you might think. In fact, that's what they were in the past, as mental hospitals and prisons weren't very distinguishable from one another... and still aren't, really. And actually, one of the largest problems in prisons, even in modern prisons to this day, is disease, particularly tuberculosis and HIV. Having tons of people in close quarters will do that. Also, most prisons have cell blocks specifically for prisoners with mental issues and chronic conditions.

So, I would be perfectly fine if half the game was about disease and mental health, because that's what prisons are half of the time. In fact, I am waiting for this very thing.

[perryliu97]

if prisoners die i vote for a Theme Hospital throw back where the grim reaper rocks up to take them away!

And of course... SLACK TONGUE!

[Chewbacado]

I think the "poison" from contraband is probably not to get people sick, but rather to kill them.


And honestly... it'd be pretty easy for this healthcare system to just completely overwhelm the whole game and turn it from Prison Architect into Hospital Architect. I think it'd probably be best for the developers to shelve this idea, finish Prison Architect, and then use the PA engine along with some of the ideas in this thread and release a Hospital Architect game.

Wait, so you are against a poor person coming in with the Bubonic Plague and killing all our prisoners? Shame to you!

Although I DO believe having a squelched up regime with indoor tiny Yards or something could be used to spread colds or something. Be pretty cool to have a hospital sim after a few days.

Xander