An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

(previously 'DEVELOPER') Private forum for registered community members. To register, please visit www.prison-architect.com/register.

Moderator: NBJeff

5hifty
level4
level4
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:22 am

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby 5hifty » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:28 pm

I wonder if they do introduce a death row, how they will show it economically. Realistically it costs magnitudes more money to kill a prisoner then it does to just have them locked up for life. It's also shown to have very little determinant value (and I can totally see why - if I was going to, say rob a bank (I know not a death sentence worthy crime, but really are any?), and I knew if caught the punishment was life in prison, I would defiantly take some time to think about it - life is a long time - but if the penalty was death? Hell I'm either gunna be rich, or not know bout it! Seems win win to me)
xPyr0x
level2
level2
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:13 am
Location: United States

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby xPyr0x » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:15 pm

Hemothorax wrote:Your story had me laughing out loud.

My suggestion: Let him roam the prison at night (freetime) and sleep during the day. Let him steal supplies of liquor and smuggle drugs. Anything to keep him statisfied :shock:


Unfortunately they won't sleep during the day, they'll just get less sleep during the night hours and be pissed off, another bug is that prisoners starve to death by going between work and reform programs during LUNCH time... :-/
nikki katz
level0
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:55 pm

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby nikki katz » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:05 pm

Personally I think that there's no need for another category unless the death penalty is introduced in anything other than the tutorial.

I think the issue is mostly that the super-max prisoners still have to use the communal canteens, whereas by common sense they should have their meals brought to them. The yard is another issue, I guess that they could have a small yard built each, but that's not really efficient.
xPyr0x
level2
level2
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:13 am
Location: United States

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby xPyr0x » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:04 am

Guys that behave like those legendarys are put on 24 hour lockdown, meals delivered, everywhere they move, they are escorted by guards, while in chains... There is no chance for them to burst out and massacre half your prison... This is what supermax should be. and minimum and normal should just be lumped together as gen pop... So then we only need PC for snitches/cops, gen pop, max security (most max security guys are fine in gen pop) But the fearless/volatile ones could be assigned max security, then save supermax for the guys like Paul, or legendarys. Max security would have armed guards, supermax would have chained escorts, so you wouldn't want to assign half your max sec to supermax....

Either way lumping together multiple legendarys and volatile, fearless guys with a couple instigators, and you have a riot. Its People are gonna die, whether its your guards, or the inmates, or both.

Meals delivered through to cells for those in lockdown could be done the same way the guards come escort them elsewhere, or that doctors find them.
LennyLeak
level2
level2
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: Copenhagen

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby LennyLeak » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:14 pm

xPyr0x wrote:Guys that behave like those legendarys are put on 24 hour lockdown, meals delivered, everywhere they move, they are escorted by guards, while in chains... There is no chance for them to burst out and massacre half your prison... This is what supermax should be. and minimum and normal should just be lumped together as gen pop... So then we only need PC for snitches/cops, gen pop, max security (most max security guys are fine in gen pop) But the fearless/volatile ones could be assigned max security, then save supermax for the guys like Paul, or legendarys. Max security would have armed guards, supermax would have chained escorts, so you wouldn't want to assign half your max sec to supermax...

This^^

Food delivery and armed escorts are really needed for supermax to feel different and be useful. The question then becomes. If you are really able to totally restrict and subdue your prisoners then where is the challenge? The current supermax system does not really feel like supermax and I agree that delivered food and armed escorts are needed. One way of bringing challenge and risk back into it might be if prisoners could manufacture shanks (instead of having to steal them), and they had a chance of assaulting staff through the food slot on the door when food was being delivered. Another thing could be a risk (based on prisoner needs) that supermax inmates refuse to "cuff up" when being escorted. I personally would love to have "cell extractions" in the game. If prisoners refused to cuff up, then armed guards would have to extract them from their cells and risk injury in the process.
xPyr0x
level2
level2
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:13 am
Location: United States

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby xPyr0x » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:26 pm

Well a few gangs came up with tricks for escaping the said armed escort. A few of which involves hiding a spare handcuff key in your nose, even being able to pop open handcuffs with the edge of a comb, and so many more creative ways.
I'm not saying it should be 100% controllable. But we need a gen pop section for "normal/minimum" prisoners, then PC for the snitches and cops, max security for the violent guys (a fearless guy still surrenders when the guy next to get him gets ventilated by a shotgun)

Then we need some tools to cover rampagers like Paul. Supermax, total isolation, they don't go to the canteen together (unless you want) 24 hour lockdown for them, except shower time, food delivered to cell.... I know they wanted to shake up the automated prisons, but guys that belong in the supermax category, you do NOT want to group them together!!! Thats probably worse than sticking one in each wing....
User avatar
SpaceVelociraptor
level1
level1
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:17 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby SpaceVelociraptor » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:11 pm

Sounds to me like you're just not using supermax correctly. It really should only be for the very worst of the worst. I think setting them so that they have to do everything at night really makes the most sense for supermax. Another idea is to build a little supermax complex across the street from the main prison.
Dynamique
level0
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:33 pm

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby Dynamique » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:57 pm

metalfoo wrote:Yes, the problem you describe is real, and a bug in my opinion. Super-Max is merely useless as soon as you collect a couple of bad guys in a special-care area just for them .It only needs a Paul or an Instigator nearby, and you will have deaths every morning, either cell mates or guards as they leave their cells for lunch, or yard or whatever. Just having two of these guys nearby to each other is enough to kick off a mini riot which will end deadly without possibility for the player to avoid it (e.g. complete isolation).

In my 250+ max-sec prison there is a special area for roughly 10 super-max bad guys. It never gets full, the guys in there kill each other long before that.


Agree... Sounds like there's a need for rebalancing - as Supermax and the new characteristics were introduced simultaniously (for a reason, obviously). One could think of allowing individually customized categories / regimes (instead of adding more "fixed" and hierarchically ordered ones - that would be stupid)... Though I doubt that this would be the solution.

The A25 announcement sounded like: Now, there's supervillains! IF you wanna go this road and have people like Paul around (an "un-realistic" character), you might need super-prison stuff as well - ... Wait, now I'm thinking about stuff like Magneto's Plastic Cell in X-Men....
an otter
level1
level1
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:14 am

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby an otter » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:53 pm

I don't think the answer is a level above SuperMax, since what happens when you have two Pauls? Four Pauls? I think the answer is to consolidate SuperMax and Witness Protection (Hear me out...) into a single "Special Cases" class. Or whatever the real-world term for that is. Where you can select, inmate-by-inmate, what facilities they're assigned to and where they'll be staying and their individual regimes, similar to how Deployment currently works with jobs, etc.

This would give us a lot more flexibility when dealing with our own Pauls and any other small-volume-high-risk inmates.

I have a giant barn of a man in my current prison too, who I've had to give special considerations for just to keep the death count low. His cell is essentially a micro-prison unto itself. He's my only SuperMax thank god, so SuperMax is essentially "This Guy", which makes it easy for me, but having more than one I foresee being an immediate problem.

We need ways to single out individuals, but I don't think more and more tiers of classification is the answer.
CJH
level2
level2
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:33 pm

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby CJH » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:59 pm

The ultimate level should be deathrow and its for the bastards who deserve death.
User avatar
RichieGrape
level4
level4
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:44 am
Location: Cleveland, OH USA

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby RichieGrape » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:50 pm

User avatar
RFC3514
level1
level1
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby RFC3514 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:07 am

Paul sounds like a ruthless psychopath. There should be an option to make him your security chief or CEO.
REDDQ
level1
level1
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby REDDQ » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:37 am

I had a guy like that. Didn't manage to cause so much damage as he had disagreement with ten armed guards on freefire orders.


Image

That is the way problems get solved :twisted:
baconholic
level0
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:11 am

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby baconholic » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:22 am

A lot of people suggested walling him in a solitary cell to rot. I personally like a much flashier way to get rid of the 100+ counts of murders. Just build a new generator next to a single cell and a solitary cell. Mark those new cell as LowSec. Transfer "Paul" to LowSec and hand him some solitary time. Now comes the fun part, call in firefighters and have them aim at the power generator. You'll get to see some nice firework and get rid of your trouble for a low low price of around $10k.
vicwarrior
level0
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:24 pm

Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby vicwarrior » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:11 pm

Let him take all the drugs he wants, wait for him to overdose (hopefully in his cell) and then make sure he doesn't ever get medical attention.

Return to “Community Members”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests