An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

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Korthal
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An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby Korthal » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:29 pm

Hello forum goers. I would like to introduce you to Paul.

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Paul is a legendary prisoner that has been in my prison for approximately one month now.

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Paul got lucky with his Legendary roll. Not only is he extremely tough, strong, and volatile, but he's also extremely deadly. Paul was trained by Kenshiro in the First of the North Star technique, allowing him to easily a crowd of people before being subdued.

But, unforunately, Paul has a problem:

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Paul is an alcoholic. And as he is Extremely Volatile, Paul will kick off if his needs for booze are not met. This is a problem for everyone in Paul's Max-Sec block. As a result, Paul has racked up more than enough kills that would make any Batman villain blush.

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Paul's schedule is as follows:


5AM:Paul goes off to the canteen to eat breakfast. He goes this early so he doesn't encounter any of the other prisoners on the way.
7AM:Paul goes to take a shower with any of his living Max-Sec prisoners.
1PM:Paul is allowed 2 hours of yard time
9PM:Paul goes off for dinner, after all the other prisoners have had a chance to eat
All times that Paul is not doing something he is in lockdown in his cell.

At any time, Paul may kick off and kill someone. These are most dangerous during any time he is outside of his cell. The Max-Sec block used to be full, but Paul has made short work of all his fellow Max-Sec prisoners in the showers. If Paul kicks off in the Canteen, expect multiple fatalities before he is brought down. And woe be it to any prisoner if Paul kicks off on his way to and from the Canteen. Currently, Paul's cell block is patrolled only by armed guards, as they will actually stand a fighting chance against Paul.
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"So why not have the armed guards be on freefire, and just kill the bastard?" Remember that Paul is extremely tough, and taking two blasts of buckshot will only knock him unconscious. He'll be taken to solitary for any murders he committed before being incapacitated, and then to the medical ward to get treatment to remove the hundreds of balls of shot he would have shrugged off. If he kicks off here, he will then kill the infirmary guard and go on another bloody rampage.




My proposal is this: above Max-Sec, there should be a Paul Class. Prisoners in the Paul Class are sent to 1x1 isolation cells, where they are permanently sequestered for the safety of all the other prisoners. Meals can be brought through a sliding door, and a grate in the floor would function as the facilities for a Paul Class prisoner.
Pigeon9441
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby Pigeon9441 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:48 pm

That moment when Paul gets a shotgun :shock:
No seriously I had once my max prisoners break open the armory door and start shooting up my guards; had to bring my two armed guards free fire to make sure a full scale riot (with shotguns) didn't occur.
Otherwise put him in solitary for 9000hours and lock the door and then have a worker seal him in with wall that should hopefully do the trick the rest is just time.
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby blipadouzi » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:56 pm

I agree there should be another level above Super-Max... here's my proposal from your Paul synopsis and several other ideas that have been proposed here.

Above Super-Max, should be an Isolation Ward... where prisoners remain in their Cells 100% of the time. Personally, I'd like to see the current Super-Max converted into an Isolation system, but that's just my two cents.

But to implement this new area, several other ideas proposed here must be implemented. Most importantly the Meals-on-Wheels idea (deliver meals to prison Cells)
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby xPyr0x » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:57 pm

Edit save.prison file in notepad++ change murder penalty from 4 hours, to something like 2-4 days, so if he kills 1 guy, he lives, if he kills MANY he starves. 1440 minutes = 24 hours. They will survive up to 3-5 days, possibly even up to 10 if there's a doctor nearby. After that they just kind of instantly pass out and die.You can also change that penalty to lockdown instead of solitary, and then you can safely delete all solitary cells for more space if you wish, and use lockdown for punnishments.

edit: also your giving him too much lockdown. You could cut his balls off by searching his name and just remove volatile and fearless from his reputation.
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby czar mohab » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:09 am

xPyr0x wrote:Edit save.prison file in notepad++ change murder penalty from 4 hours, to something like 2-4 days, so if he kills 1 guy, he lives, if he kills MANY he starves. 1440 minutes = 24 hours. They will survive up to 3-5 days, possibly even up to 10 if there's a doctor nearby. After that they just kind of instantly pass out and die.You can also change that penalty to lockdown instead of solitary, and then you can safely delete all solitary cells for more space if you wish, and use lockdown for punnishments.

edit: also your giving him too much lockdown. You could cut his balls off by searching his name and just remove volatile and fearless from his reputation.


Not everyone wants to hack the save game file to "fix" a problem like Paul. It feels a bit cheap to do it that way. Almost seems like missing the point of the game going that route. But I do understand that not everyone is capable of handling a Paul (for whatever reason, maybe he's just not wanted) and would then feel that there is only one option but to hack their save. Whatever, to each their own.

Personally, I'd rather work on a constructive method of controlling the threat, such as the suggested super-super-max-isolation-wing-of-doom. An actual interim fix might be to move the current super-maxies to as close to the/a canteen as possible and give ol' Paulie boy absolutely 0 time besides 1 Eat outside of his cell.

Also - Thunderdome. Two Pauls enter, one Paul leaves.

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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby xPyr0x » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:35 am

Well I had a couple guys go on rampages and kill a dozen guys, 139 guys though? wtf. No armed guards around him? Not saying you have to hack your save, but most legendarys I get either end up dead in the first 48 hours, or they get along fine.
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby minicrafter8401PA » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:02 pm

Yeah, I feel that the Supermax category should be turned into a Isolated Ward or Isolation or whatever.
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby xPyr0x » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:15 pm

Prisoners like those legendarys are escorted by like 5 guards, while chained up though, I think we just need to save super max for the very worst, and leave a lot of the guys in max, we normally we would tag supermax, ie, volatatile...
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby LennyLeak » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:44 pm

Nice post. Your story had me smiling :)

I don't really care what we call it. The crucial thing is to be able to lockdown prisoners 24/7. As mentioned the most important thing is to get a system where food is delivered to the cells. Would be nice if it was made like the laundrysystem where food was delivered from the kitchen and dropped off at cell doors.
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby Pingy » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:17 am

LennyLeak wrote:Nice post. Your story had me smiling :)

I don't really care what we call it. The crucial thing is to be able to lockdown prisoners 24/7. As mentioned the most important thing is to get a system where food is delivered to the cells. Would be nice if it was made like the laundrysystem where food was delivered from the kitchen and dropped off at cell doors.


This, there's been a couple guys I never wanted to see the light of day, but had to let them out to eat.

The only legendary I had killed 4 people so I put him in super-max, then he broke out and got shotgunned by the armed guard and that was that. I would say without editing files the most logical ingame solution if armed guards can't kill him would be to create a special solitary cell and put him in it, then brick over the door until he starves to death. Murder 136 people and I've got no sympathy for ya.

If you want to actually manage him, I don't recall if stoical completely negates solitary or if it has a reduced effect, but giving him 24 hours solitary arbitrarily will at least keep him out of the schedule rotation for a day without having to mess with any other schedules. You could even give him 2 or 3 days at a time, let him spend a normal day so he doesn't starve, then back to solitary. Its all about limiting his opportunities to kill people.
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby xPyr0x » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:37 am

The problem with giving him long times in lockdown or solitary (is it only takes 6 hours for max suppression) Also it will cripple your workshop, I only lock em up for fights, everything else I just have it confiscated and they get searched. I also set a very high number by editing murder from 4 hours to like 4 days. So if they kill more than 1-2 people, like sir Paul there did, not even the doctors can save him once it reaches like a month he will instantly passout and die, unless your infirmary is near the solitary cells... But your average guy that kills 1 guy, will still live. Also locking them up for days then letting them out, they are just going to instantly start fighting as soon as they get out. Even minimum sec guys will do this, let alone legendarys. I think supermax needs some tweaks to it, to operate like a real supermax. Armed escorts, chained up between moving from cell to other locations. A way to get food into Solitary/Lockdown.

Without the danger of deploying armed guards all over the entire prison, endangering both your prisoners, my old one had something like a 1 in 3 death ratio cause I kept free fire on, if not, they TOOK the guns and things went even worse.
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby metalfoo » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:03 am

Yes, the problem you describe is real, and a bug in my opinion. Super-Max is merely useless as soon as you collect a couple of bad guys in a special-care area just for them .It only needs a Paul or an Instigator nearby, and you will have deaths every morning, either cell mates or guards as they leave their cells for lunch, or yard or whatever. Just having two of these guys nearby to each other is enough to kick off a mini riot which will end deadly without possibility for the player to avoid it (e.g. complete isolation).

In my 250+ max-sec prison there is a special area for roughly 10 super-max bad guys. It never gets full, the guys in there kill each other long before that.
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby WiseWoodrow » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:43 am

Very interesting. I don't think there should be a level above supermax, but I do think perhaps, more features to make super max actually supermax, such as what you've suggested with isolation, be a thing.

Super-Max is intended for those people, it's just not up to par with how you can control them yet.
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby Pigeon9441 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:06 am

Might just justify death row to get rid of Mr. Killalot
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Re: An argument for having a level beyond Super-Max

Postby Hemothorax » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:29 pm

Your story had me laughing out loud.

My suggestion: Let him roam the prison at night (freetime) and sleep during the day. Let him steal supplies of liquor and smuggle drugs. Anything to keep him statisfied :shock:

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