External Laundry

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Xoligy
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Re: External Laundry

Postby Xoligy » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:21 am

Xander, i have been told you keep replying to me but, i see nothing...
your really just wasting your time dear chap.

There will soon be a video uploaded just for you to see i cn see fuck all you write. =)

Here is the link but, please choose any thread on these forums and ask a mod to message me to confirm this and i will go though that thread page by page by page and even jump to other websites with the time so you can see.. i see fuck all wrote by you =)

Video link: http://youtu.be/ENBlb_wjyDE
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xander
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Re: External Laundry

Postby xander » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:35 am

I do find it rather amusing how much effort you have gone to in order to both ignore me and try to make me care about the fact that you have ignored me. It is rather entertaining.

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Re: External Laundry

Postby Gondlar » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:47 am

I'd recommend both of you to get a good nights sleep (or whatever is the appropriate activity right now where you live) before posting here again ;)
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Re: External Laundry

Postby Xoligy » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:51 am

Gondlar, he's just an forum user i blocked who got promoted to a mod for some strange reason but keeps replying to me ive been told even after he's been told he's been blocked my side.

He's kinda dumb! ;)
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Re: External Laundry

Postby DrNoid » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:10 am

Xoligy wrote:Gondlar, he's just an forum user i blocked who got promoted to a mod for some strange reason but keeps replying to me ive been told even after he's been told he's been blocked my side.

He's just replying to you so others don't have to. And since you don't see his replies and thus don't counter-reply, it keeps the flamewars down.
But I guess you where not intelligent enough to see it from that angle :p
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Re: External Laundry

Postby Xoligy » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:08 pm

DrNoid wrote:
Xoligy wrote:Gondlar, he's just an forum user i blocked who got promoted to a mod for some strange reason but keeps replying to me ive been told even after he's been told he's been blocked my side.

He's just replying to you so others don't have to. And since you don't see his replies and thus don't counter-reply, it keeps the flamewars down.
But I guess you where not intelligent enough to see it from that angle :p

Actually xander is nothing more than a forum troll with moderator powers.

As for the comment about my intelligence, i must have some if im able to block a forum moderator, no?
Anyway, everyone else can kiss his ass but me im glad i silenced the forum troll :P
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MAdMaN
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Re: External Laundry

Postby MAdMaN » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:13 pm

Xoligy wrote:Actually xander is nothing more than a forum troll with moderator powers.

As for the comment about my intelligence, i must have some if im able to block a forum moderator, no?
Anyway, everyone else can kiss his ass but me im glad i silenced the forum troll :P

Your posts are more problematic than his.
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Re: External Laundry

Postby Xoligy » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:36 pm

So asking people to give a better description of there ideas, followed by reasoning why i dont like them instead of saying "yes this is a great idea!" is problematic? Oh, ok so this forum is all about "This has already been suggested here:" and "+1 this i a great idea!" and "lets also add this and that to it! :D" but because im the one explaining why ideas are bad im the problem?

Fine...

+1 this is an awesome idea :roll:
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Re: External Laundry

Postby xander » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:05 pm

Xoligy wrote:So asking people to give a better description of there ideas, followed by reasoning why i dont like them instead of saying "yes this is a great idea!" is problematic? Oh, ok so this forum is all about "This has already been suggested here:" and "+1 this i a great idea!" and "lets also add this and that to it! :D" but because im the one explaining why ideas are bad im the problem?

I know that you aren't going to read this, because you have already decided that everything I say is irrelevant, but if that is what you think you are doing, then you are lacking a certain amount of self-awareness. You are not "asking people to give a better description of there[sic] ideas, followed by reasoning why i[sic] dont[sic] like them". Instead, when you see an idea that you don't like, you attack and abuse the person who made the suggestion, and (in what seems to be your favorite complaint) accuse them of being lazy or of playing the game in a lazy fashion. You aren't asking for clarification or providing constructive criticism, but instead making personal attacks.

It should also be noted that you seem to think that every suggestion ought to come fully-formed, like Athena from the head of Zeus, and that any idea that does not pass your personal muster on first glance must be utterly without merit. The point of forums is to allow for discussion. If an idea is incomplete, why not offer construction suggestions about how it could be completed? Why simply attack and tear down?

Oh, and while we are on the topic, you childishly insist upon calling me a troll and trumpet the fact that you are ignoring me whenever you can. Yet you continue to childishly call me names and attack me personally at every opportunity. The is the equivalent of a five year old sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "Na na na na! I can't hear you, you stupid poopy head! :P" This strikes me as the behaviour of a troll. If you have a problem with me, why don't you act like an adult and talk about it?

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Re: External Laundry

Postby MAdMaN » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:07 pm

Xoligy wrote:So asking people to give a better description of there ideas, followed by reasoning why i dont like them instead of saying "yes this is a great idea!" is problematic? Oh, ok so this forum is all about "This has already been suggested here:" and "+1 this i a great idea!" and "lets also add this and that to it! :D" but because im the one explaining why ideas are bad im the problem?

Fine...

+1 this is an awesome idea :roll:

And this is a perfect example of what I said. You seem to fly off the handle entirely too quickly when someone says something you don't agree with. That and the childish name calling are why I'd have to side with xander if the choice was between you or him.
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Re: External Laundry

Postby xander » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:26 pm

MAdMaN wrote:And this is a perfect example of what I said. You seem to fly off the handle entirely too quickly when someone says something you don't agree with. That and the childish name calling are why I'd have to side with xander if the choice was between you or him.

Be honest, MAdMaN---you would vote me off the island in a heartbeat, wouldn't you? :P

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Re: External Laundry

Postby Xoligy » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:42 pm

Let me get this right madman, im childish for calling xander a troll but its ok for him to constantly insult me and others? (its one reason why i blocked him btw) As you can see you dont talk much sense...

Anyway, seeing as this is the section for game ideas and discussions (as long as all discussions are positive that is) i will let the thread get back on track. That is if its ok with you lot anyway? Or is it xanders job to make these decisions seeing as his now men't to be a moderator and should show a good example? :roll:

Can someone please pass on this message to xander, im deeply sorry i hurt your feelings calling you a troll even though the statement is true but, you really should stop insulting others if you can not handle the insults yourself.

To everyone else.

Please remember this is ment to be discussions about the game, i have no idea why your all butting your noses in to something that does not concern you and i have no idea why xander feels the need to stalk me and write messages to me knowing i can not seen them and if i could, i still woudlnt read them because its always the same rubbish and insults which im quite frankly bored with.

Anyway out of this thread, this is a discussion about the game si it not?

+1 for this idea :roll:
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Re: External Laundry

Postby MAdMaN » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:53 pm

Xoligy wrote:i have no idea why your all butting your noses in to something that does not concern you

Well it is being posted on a public forum.

Xoligy wrote:its always the same rubbish and insults

How would you know if you have him blocked?

xander wrote:Be honest, MAdMaN---you would vote me off the island in a heartbeat, wouldn't you? :P

Of course not (I need someone to blame for the random killings).
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Re: External Laundry

Postby xander » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:11 pm

Xoligy wrote:--==<snip>==---

You want to discuss the game? Fine. My original goal in this thread was to discuss the game. Your complaints about my behaviour took things off-topic. Here is the last thing that I wrote that wasn't a direct response to your trolling:

xander wrote:
Xoligy wrote:Really? So there is so far one negative thing to getting contractors in? Even though there are loads of others on the forum of many have come up with, one... (and the easy one at that)

  1. laundry deliveries are a contraband entry point
  2. laundry pick ups are an escape route (and I am strongly of the opinion that there ought to be more ways for prisoners to escape)
  3. laundry contracts cost money (as a balance issue, compare to cooks (more secure) vs prison labor (cheaper)---yes, balance is a beta issue, but there is no reason that we can't think about it now)
  4. laundry transport as a block to efficiency (workers have to move laundry around, rather than prisoners, thus utilizing possibly limited resources)
  5. (spitballing a bit here) laundry trucks as an impediment to other delivery vehicles (or even emergency vehicles)
  6. (again, spitballing) external laundry contractors might have an impact on the needs system (maybe the contractors are inefficient and cannot satisfy the clothing needs entirely, or the lack of meaningful work causes prisoners to get bored (i.e. the recreation or safety needs might not be met)
Aside from that, I think that it should be possible (if not easy) to run a prison without having to perform any research. That is currently possible, as one can hire cooks, guards, and workers without doing any research. With these staff, it is possible, but not easy, to manage a prison. If clothing becomes a riotable need, then this will no longer be possible, and, in fact, several levels of tech need to be researched before the need can be met. An external laundry contractor makes is possible to make the clothing need a rioting need.

Here, however, is an alternative: the addition of another staff position. The "Laundry Worker" (or whatever you choose to call it) lives in a Laundry (like Cooks live in the Kitchen), runs the wash, and delivers laundry.

To the list, let me also add cost. Under the current system, laundry has certain fixed costs (i.e. the costs of the washing machines and laundry baskets), but no recurring costs. A laundry contractor would be a recurring cost without any fixed costs, providing another disadvantage to contracting. Let me also invert the question: what are the benefits of a laundry contractor? It seems to me that the only benefit that anyone has come up with is that it would allow a player to get the laundry done without researching prison labor (and maybe without devoting space in the prison to it, but I don't think that space is at that much of a premium, even on a small map). Are there other benefits to a laundry contractor?

Of course, you aren't going to read any of this, meaning that you cannot actually engage in productive discussion. But clearly, I am the troll. :roll:

xander
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Re: External Laundry

Postby DrNoid » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:32 am

xa wrote:
Xoligy wrote:--==<snip>==---

You want to discuss the game? Fine. My original goal in this thread was to discuss the game. Your complaints about my behaviour took things off-topic. Here is the last thing that I wrote that wasn't a direct response to your trolling:

xa wrote:
Xoligy wrote:Really? So there is so far one negative thing to getting contractors in? Even though there are loads of others on the forum of many have come up with, one... (and the easy one at that)

  1. laundry deliveries are a contraband entry point
  2. laundry pick ups are an escape route (and I am strongly of the opinion that there ought to be more ways for prisoners to escape)
  3. laundry contracts cost money (as a balance issue, compare to cooks (more secure) vs prison labor (cheaper)---yes, balance is a beta issue, but there is no reason that we can't think about it now)
  4. laundry transport as a block to efficiency (workers have to move laundry around, rather than prisoners, thus utilizing possibly limited resources)
  5. (spitballing a bit here) laundry trucks as an impediment to other delivery vehicles (or even emergency vehicles)
  6. (again, spitballing) external laundry contractors might have an impact on the needs system (maybe the contractors are inefficient and cannot satisfy the clothing needs entirely, or the lack of meaningful work causes prisoners to get bored (i.e. the recreation or safety needs might not be met)
Aside from that, I think that it should be possible (if not easy) to run a prison without having to perform any research. That is currently possible, as one can hire cooks, guards, and workers without doing any research. With these staff, it is possible, but not easy, to manage a prison. If clothing becomes a riotable need, then this will no longer be possible, and, in fact, several levels of tech need to be researched before the need can be met. An external laundry contractor makes is possible to make the clothing need a rioting need.

Here, however, is an alternative: the addition of another staff position. The "Laundry Worker" (or whatever you choose to call it) lives in a Laundry (like Cooks live in the Kitchen), runs the wash, and delivers laundry.

To the list, let me also add cost. Under the current system, laundry has certain fixed costs (i.e. the costs of the washing machines and laundry baskets), but no recurring costs. A laundry contractor would be a recurring cost without any fixed costs, providing another disadvantage to contracting. Let me also invert the question: what are the benefits of a laundry contractor? It seems to me that the only benefit that anyone has come up with is that it would allow a player to get the laundry done without researching prison labor (and maybe without devoting space in the prison to it, but I don't think that space is at that much of a premium, even on a small map). Are there other benefits to a laundry contractor?

Of course, you aren't going to read any of this, meaning that you cannot actually engage in productive discussion. But clearly, I am the troll. :roll:

xa

There, now the scriptkiddy can read it.

Other benefits of having a laundry contractor: No prisoners around dangerous equipment and chemicals. That's probably reason nr1 why real prisons contract it out. I can totally see inmates putting other inmates in the laundry machines as a way of murder.

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