[Suggestion] Multiplayer and Prisoner Run

[xander]

Also, one last note to Xander. Why did they waste their time with multiwinia, if they didn't want to make money? But that's the thing, they only WANTED and repeated what they did with defcon. IV can choose to make money or choose to make games they personally like and don't get me wrong, you can make money with it; but I don't see them taking off anytime soon with a model they've chosen. It works great for a cult following, but not a majority.

Multiwinia is an example of when IV got burned by losing sight of their core ethos and trying to make more money. They made a deal with Microsoft to produce an XBLA version of Darwinia, which required a multiplayer component. They worked for years on that component, went nearly broke, and the game flopped, anyway. So Multiwinia was pretty much a flop in every way that matters: it wasn't the game that Chris wanted to make AND it didn't make money.

As for the "model" that IV have chosen, I don't see the problem with it. Art and happiness before massive profits, and all that.

xander

[Ric666]

I really enjoyed multiwinia. Shame it never sold many

[xander]

I really enjoyed multiwinia. Shame it never sold many :(

Indeed. I quite like Multiwinia, as well. It got tiresome, however, when there were only one or two other people to play against.

xander

[CriticalRocket]

I could easily see a game like Prison Architect have a multiplayer mode.
I don't see what's wrong with having an action/strategy multiplayer, when the game's core is a business simulation game.
Atm PA is more like a building sim than a business sim though.

Think of the Sims, you first build your house, then you use you control characters. How is that not almost the same?

A prison architect multiplayer could be something like what as said before, as in:

(I'm just writing down every idea that I have)

*
1 Player controls the prison(hereafter referred to as 'the ward'), other players take on roles of prisoners, making escape routes, which are invisible to the ward, searching and trading for weapons etc etc. The ward would have to keep vision of the whole prison to look for contraband, check if every prisoner is present at for example dinner, to check if someone is trying to escape or anything, keep his doors locked and so on and so on.

Ofcourse, that wouldn't be something you could enjoy for hours long. But what about the 'ward' not being a ward, but just controlling 1 single guard? It would be more like hide and seek. He'd have to ask other guards for tips, search rooms, and at the same time deal with fights in the prison, lock doors, escort prisoners, stuff like that.

The prisoners trying to escape could have other options, like setting up some sort of black market in the prison, bribing guards and what not.
The prisoners wouldn't know which guard would be the other player, so they'd have to be cautious who to interact with. Even so, a guard (player) could still accept a bribe, hoping to discover who the other soon-to-be-escapees are, or just to stop the break out from happening by not doing what the prisoner asked.

This all would happen inside a prison one of the players made, and it would be especially made for this gamemode. A player could make 1 prison for when they are prisoner, and 1 for when they are a guard.


But now that I think of it, this is indeed, nothing like a Prison Simulation game anymore. It would be something totally, TOTALLY different. Maybe more something for a standalone game even (although that would be a bit of a weird and super short game).
Personally, I don't have a problem with that. But as a company you might not want to do that..



So what about a different multiplayer mode.


2 players are building a prison in real time, but you'd be able to save and stop at any time and continue later. Both players would have to be online then ofcourse, so it'd be the easiest to play with friends.

The objective would be becomming the best prison in the country, or world. Build a better prison than the competition, a prison with a higher prisoner capacity, better health care(wounded persons healed faster/better), less injuries, less riots etc etc.
People from the government would visit your prison every now and then to inspect it, and after a certain amount of time a grand winner would be chosen. You could be able to influence the other players prison by giving gifts to 'a person high up'(NPC) who decides which prison gets money from the government, which prison gets more prisoners each day etc etc. You could ask a gang to attack the other prison and let prisoners escape, bribe the other prisons guards, send gifts (cake with a knife or smthing :p) to the prisoners in the other prison.. stuff like that, IDK.

That would focus much more on the Building Sim aspect of the game.


Well, IDK. To be honest, the game is already lots of fun without a multiplayer. I don't really know what a multiplayer would/could look like, but if there won't be one (which is almost certain) then it's not like I'm going to stop playing.
I bought this game knowing it's single player, and it's lots of fun as a single player.

[MAdMaN]

I don't see what's wrong with having an action/strategy multiplayer, when the game's core is a business simulation game.
Atm PA is more like a building sim than a business sim though.

Think of the Sims, you first build your house, then you use you control characters. How is that not almost the same?

PA is a building sim, similar to SimCity (from the original up to 4, not Societies or the disaster that was released earlier in the year). We don't control the characters (Chris has said we won't have control over prison staff in the released game).

1 Player controls the prison(hereafter referred to as 'the ward'), other players take on roles of prisoners, making escape routes, which are invisible to the ward, searching and trading for weapons etc etc. The ward would have to keep vision of the whole prison to look for contraband, check if every prisoner is present at for example dinner, to check if someone is trying to escape or anything, keep his doors locked and so on and so on.

Ofcourse, that wouldn't be something you could enjoy for hours long. But what about the 'ward' not being a ward, but just controlling 1 single guard? It would be more like hide and seek. He'd have to ask other guards for tips, search rooms, and at the same time deal with fights in the prison, lock doors, escort prisoners, stuff like that.

The prisoners trying to escape could have other options, like setting up some sort of black market in the prison, bribing guards and what not.
The prisoners wouldn't know which guard would be the other player, so they'd have to be cautious who to interact with. Even so, a guard (player) could still accept a bribe, hoping to discover who the other soon-to-be-escapees are, or just to stop the break out from happening by not doing what the prisoner asked.

This all would happen inside a prison one of the players made, and it would be especially made for this gamemode. A player could make 1 prison for when they are prisoner, and 1 for when they are a guard.


But now that I think of it, this is indeed, nothing like a Prison Simulation game anymore. It would be something totally, TOTALLY different. Maybe more something for a standalone game even (although that would be a bit of a weird and super short game).
Personally, I don't have a problem with that. But as a company you might not want to do that..

Exactly. It's a completely different type of game. I paid for a building sim, so that's what I want.

2 players are building a prison in real time, but you'd be able to save and stop at any time and continue later. Both players would have to be online then ofcourse, so it'd be the easiest to play with friends.

The objective would be becomming the best prison in the country, or world. Build a better prison than the competition, a prison with a higher prisoner capacity, better health care(wounded persons healed faster/better), less injuries, less riots etc etc.
People from the government would visit your prison every now and then to inspect it, and after a certain amount of time a grand winner would be chosen. You could be able to influence the other players prison by giving gifts to 'a person high up'(NPC) who decides which prison gets money from the government, which prison gets more prisoners each day etc etc. You could ask a gang to attack the other prison and let prisoners escape, bribe the other prisons guards, send gifts (cake with a knife or smthing :p) to the prisoners in the other prison.. stuff like that, IDK.

That would focus much more on the Building Sim aspect of the game.

Prisons are created to house people who have broken the law. They aren't (or at least shouldn't be) run in order to compete with other prisons.

[Spectre Incarnate]

Sid Meier's Railroads offered LAN/network multiplayer. Can't remember if you could do it over the Internet easily or not. But the thing is... the multiplayer game mode was identical to the single player game mode, just you were playing against a human instead of the AI. You each control individual railroad companies and build up your own company, trying to drive the other companies out of business.

Same for Railroad Tycoon2 multiplayer and I actually *really enjoy* that type of multiplayer. In fact, I am planning to do a RT2 session with a friend later this week.

Can't really do this with Prison Architect. Prisons don't really open up across the street from each other and try driving one another out of business... there's not much of a competitive aspect to prison building.

Some people are already competing in a way, by uploading their prison saves, so you can see their handiwork and how awesome they are. I think this means there is at least a *little* bit of a competetive nature going around.

Even so, a multiplayer version of a game doesn't necessarily have to be competing directly against each other in a real life sense, either. It could be for ratings and score on who's prison is better equipped and maintained, who has better turn-out, do prisoners keep coming back, are they reintegrated into society? Basically, playing a single player game at the same time and seeing who gets a better score. This could be with or without vying for government attention.

The only competitive part about it might be bidding for the initial grants.

But then again, I really like the idea of vying for government attention. No, they don't pop up across the street from each other like gas stations, but they do have multiple prisons in states and countries that vye for funding and contracts and even prisoners themselves. They have rating systems for whether or not a repeat prisoner is sent back to that prison or another one with better facilities and rehabilitation programs that might actually help that prisoner. The players would compete for number of prisoners, risk level of prisoners, and overall making a better prison compared the other player's prison.

If that seems too happy for prison competition, harsher wardens would have to try to keep their underhanded dealings and evil actions secret and get a good system going for keeping things under wraps. The other player could then try to out him through politics, personal rights organizations, gang wars, spies, government bribes, guard corruption, and suggesting they send quality inspectors at the most inopportune of times---Busted!

I see some of you are taking as a good idea and would love to see it in a mod, but what's the point of me wasting my time when IV doesn't even wanna pop in with an opinion. If they say nope, then I'll stop talking about it as a expansion and more as asking for someone to make a mod. At that point I'll pay the designer to make the mod.

Sorry to see ya go. If you happen to see this, I know exactly how you feel. The devs are most likely busy working on stuff, but they really should have a moderator/PR rep here to let us know what's going on, instead of always having to hear it second hand. And at this point, I'm pretty sure we're just enjoying talking about the possibilities and ideas for a fan-made mod, and that shouldn't be so much of an upset, but for some odd reason it is.

2 players are building a prison in real time, but you'd be able to save and stop at any time and continue later. Both players would have to be online then ofcourse, so it'd be the easiest to play with friends.

The objective would be becomming the best prison in the country, or world. Build a better prison than the competition, a prison with a higher prisoner capacity, better health care(wounded persons healed faster/better), less injuries, less riots etc etc.
People from the government would visit your prison every now and then to inspect it, and after a certain amount of time a grand winner would be chosen. You could be able to influence the other players prison by giving gifts to 'a person high up'(NPC) who decides which prison gets money from the government, which prison gets more prisoners each day etc etc. You could ask a gang to attack the other prison and let prisoners escape, bribe the other prisons guards, send gifts (cake with a knife or smthing :p) to the prisoners in the other prison.. stuff like that, IDK.

That would focus much more on the Building Sim aspect of the game.

Yes! You read my mind! I had my piece in a notepad!

Prisons are created to house people who have broken the law. They aren't (or at least shouldn't be) run in order to compete with other prisons.

Except, they kind of are in a sense, as CriticalRocket and I have now explained, and even if it wasn't, this is more about the players competing for best prison from a gaming perspective of wanting to have a higher score and that's about it. It doesn't matter if there's no such thing as an ultimate competition of prisons in real life. That does not concern us in the least.

[christopher1006]

If they did multi-player then I think they should simply lay out the framework so it'll be easier to start later on after the game is finished. I bought this for a single player experience, not for a multi-player strategy game that would feel tacked on and pointless.

[Silvereye]

I bought this for a single player experience, not for a multi-player strategy game that would feel tacked on and pointless.

+1 ... no +100 !!!
Otherwise i should get my Money back

[Spectre Incarnate]

We're just talking about possible ideas for a fan-mod now, guys. Calm down.

[xander]

We're just talking about possible ideas for a fan-mod now, guys. Calm down. :)

I hate to keep being a wet blanket, but without access to the source code, a fan made mod cannot have multiplayer functionality. If IV don't put the functionality into the game, there is nothing that you or I can do to change that.

xander

[CriticalRocket]

Prisons are created to house people who have broken the law. They aren't (or at least shouldn't be) run in order to compete with other prisons.

Except, they kind of are in a sense, as CriticalRocket and I have now explained, and even if it wasn't, this is more about the players competing for best prison from a gaming perspective of wanting to have a higher score and that's about it. It doesn't matter if there's no such thing as an ultimate competition of prisons in real life. That does not concern us in the least.

Indeed. A game doesn't have to be 100% realistic you know.
Whats wrong with adding a multiplayer element like this? Why wouldn't prisons compete with eachother in real life?

Every organization, company or whatever wants to be better than its competitors. Even when it's a government funded one like a prison.
If your prison is bigger and better, you are likely to be given more 'responsibility' and influence. A bigger prison would get more funding from the government, and probably would lead to a higher pay check for the prison ward/manager/boss whatever, if you know what I mean.

And the other way around too. If the quality of life in 'your' prison is too bad, it'll be shut down.


And ofcourse in real life prisons wouldn't compete in the way I said in my post.

But remember, this is a video game, not real life. It's main purpose is to provide entertainment, and realism isn't always the most entertaining.
(I bet you can't name a single video game which is 100% realistic and 100% the same as real life)

[Pogo]

IV just doesn't fit my style of games, so I guess I better move on and quiet trying to change it. I guess it's also pointless if I asking for a mod too, since I'm not going to be checking it again, sohave a nice day.

Okay, now this is just extraordinarily dumb.

You don't see anyone on Call of Duty forums saying "Hey, competitive first person shooter games aren't my type of game. Call of Duty multiplayer should be removed. The single player should be expanded and fleshed out. And there should be a massive strategy element added to it," do you?

No.


Prison Architect isn't your type of game? Introversion doesn't make any games that fit the type of game that you like to play? Guess what, there are a lot of other games and game companies out there. And Prison Architect fits perfectly to the mold of game that a lot of us actually do enjoy playing.

You're looking at this from the perspective of "IV won't mold X game to fit my style of game perfectly." Some of us are looking at it from the perspective of "If you want a multiplayer strategy game, there are plenty of others out there. We want a building/business sim game, and Prison Architect is that type of game, so stop trying to change it."


And do you know what the worst part of this is? Multiplayer strategy games come out frequently. Building/business sims, at least quality ones, are few and far between. There are plenty of other options out there if you're looking for a multiplayer strategy game. There aren't a whole lot of other good options out there for those of us looking for a good building/business sim... so don't try turning one of those few options into something else.

[Pogo]

Prisons are created to house people who have broken the law. They aren't (or at least shouldn't be) run in order to compete with other prisons.

Except, they kind of are in a sense, as CriticalRocket and I have now explained, and even if it wasn't, this is more about the players competing for best prison from a gaming perspective of wanting to have a higher score and that's about it. It doesn't matter if there's no such thing as an ultimate competition of prisons in real life. That does not concern us in the least.

Indeed. A game doesn't have to be 100% realistic you know.
Whats wrong with adding a multiplayer element like this? Why wouldn't prisons compete with eachother in real life?

Every organization, company or whatever wants to be better than its competitors. Even when it's a government funded one like a prison.
If your prison is bigger and better, you are likely to be given more 'responsibility' and influence. A bigger prison would get more funding from the government, and probably would lead to a higher pay check for the prison ward/manager/boss whatever, if you know what I mean.

And the other way around too. If the quality of life in 'your' prison is too bad, it'll be shut down.


And ofcourse in real life prisons wouldn't compete in the way I said in my post.

But remember, this is a video game, not real life. It's main purpose is to provide entertainment, and realism isn't always the most entertaining.
(I bet you can't name a single video game which is 100% realistic and 100% the same as real life)

I would be 100% okay for there to be in-game leaderboards that kept track of several statistics like...

Most number of prisoners
Highest daily profit
Cleanest (and dirtiest) prison
Safest (and most dangerous) prison
Highest (and lowest) recidivism rates



However, I'd be annoyed if this were a compulsory aspect (i.e., I have to be online to play the game so the game can keep track of me for leaderboard). I'd also be annoyed if this in anyway affected my prison. My simulation should see no affect for being at the top of any leaderboard other than affects that are already built into the game. For example, if there's a negative consequence for a dirty prison, fine. But I shouldn't have an extra consequence for being in the top 10 dirtiest prisons, etc.



What I'm not interested in seeing, and what I don't think is beneficial to the game play, is prisons across the street from each other directly competing for money, prisoners, safety, whatever. That just seems too farfetched, too ridiculous.

[polle]

Well, playing a prisoner in mulitplayer is basically a stupid idea... because iam the architect

I have some other ideas:
You make it like Sim City with various difficulty landscape.
You can trade your prisoner for cash or other low risks. Like any common football manager
You can request riot guards from you neighbours

[Silvereye]

You make it like Sim City with various difficulty landscape.

Hell NOOOO. I Want to Play the Game. Not to see its too much Casual with many Bugs and unplayable. One Sim City is enough in that World... err... Universe.