The Pope is dead

[doormat]

Did I or did I not say that I knew what you were getting at?

I know what you're trying to say, so I will resist the urge to smack you upside the head

Oh yeah. I did.

Religion doesn't start wars. And guns don't kill people. People start wars and kill people.

But guns and religion rarely help.

When was the last time al-qaeda "followed the will of Alah" by holding a bake sale, huh?

[Stewsburntmonkey]

So why be such an ass? It only serves to make you look like an idiot and disrupts what could be a serious discussion.

[FrostShard]

When was the last time al-qaeda "followed the will of Alah" by holding a bake sale, huh?

Yeah, but if you read the Qu'ran I doubt you'll find that passage where in the small print it says "All good followers of the will of Allah must fly planes into buildings and kill thousands of innocent people."

At the risk of repeating myself (again) religion is an excuse. If religion was banned, the people who want to fly planes into buildings would find another cause to claim they're doing it for.

[doormat]

I agree. I wasn't arguing in favour of banning religion; It can't be done. The need to have something like religion is built into the human brain. The are no isolated tribes of Atheists.

"Oh village elder, how did the giraffe get its long neck?"
"Once, they had only short necks, little one. Then, one was born with a slightly longer neck. It was able to reach higher for food, and was able to survive longer and reproduce more. Gradualy, the necks of each generation become longer and longer. Or so it is written."

Pretty poor legend.

I just took issue with Stewburntmonkey generalising and saying that war was not related to religion, when in fact religion is often a factor in justifing or causing war.

Or in fact, I didn't, I just mentioned he was being unclear and that people could take issue with it. He asked me to demonstrate.

[Stewsburntmonkey]

Which you never did. . .

Anyway I made that statement deliberately controversial so someone intelligent would take issue with it and then I would proceed to prove my point. Unfortunately it was you who took the bait. I believe if you look at my statement it was entirely correct. There have infact been very few wars fought over religous ideology. People don't generally start wars just because someone believes in a different God or in a different prophet than them. If they did *then* it would be a religious war. But like I said that almost never happens.

[doormat]

I don't want to argue with you Stewburntmonkey; I should never have replied to your challange. I don't hold the view that war is caused exclusively by religion, and that seems to be the opposing viewpoint you're looking for.

You're attitude seems quite confrontational. You resort to personal insults far too quickly. You are supremely self-confident and you talk others down too casualy. I'm sure in person you do it with a smile, but it's not something I'm prepared to face on a issue where I don't hold a stong opinion.

P.S. Oddly, I don't care how inteligent you think I am. Strange that.

[Stewsburntmonkey]

I didn't use any personal insults. . .

I only get annoyed when I feel an idiot is being stupid (ie you posting). I have no patients for people being pains just to be a pain. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but I do expect them to do it seriously. The points made earlier were that religion causes a lot of wars. I simply made the observation that almost no wars in history were ever based primarily on religion. And that as others have said religion becomes the excuse for violence driven in reality by political, cultural, or economic reasons.

[shadyzr]

Ok the pope had a good heart. The catholics think that they are the one and only religion, why else would they have a simple man as a go between with man and GOD?? They believe that if you go to confession and tell what you sinned about, that a catholic preist can forgive your sins. WRONG!! No one can forgive sins except GOD himself. You can have a pesonal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It says in the Bible, No one comes to the Father but by me. And what are they praying to Mary for??? Yes she was Jesus' mother, but thats all. It also says in the Bible, You shall have no Gods before me, or idols, and thats what Mary would be. We can ask God to forgive us our sins through Jesus in His name. I'm not trying to cut the pope down, in general, he was a good human being.

[ToRmEnToR]

This is infact the case with almost all wars that are labeled as religious wars. The Israeli-Palestine conflict is not a religous conflict, but rather a cultural one. For the most part the Palestinian's don't hate Judaism, they hate the Jews (a significant distinction) and vice-versa. You must destinguish between the religion and the followers. Northern-Ireland was a similar instance where the real issue was not religion, but political and economic conditions.

Are you saying that religion didnt make things worst in the palestinian-israeli conflict? Check out the reason for the major spark that helped start the secound intifada in the year 2000.

<edit>

and when religion isnt present, there is room for logical soluitions.

"Ok the israelis have offered us a good deal. Lets make peace, it's about damn time."

-"No way man, they are jews, and jerusalem is ours!"

[Stewsburntmonkey]

No I think religion is merely an excuse.

Just look at a school yard arguement, what is the first thing that happens? People start insulting each other's mothers. They do this dispite the fact that their mother's have nothing to do with the actual arguement. Religion is the same way. It is something one side can easily use to antagonize or insult the other. The root of the Israeli-Palestinian problem is not religious. It is political (ie they are fighting over land and power, not over who's religion is correct).

I'm also not sure what "spark" you are speaking of reguarding the Second Intifada.

[doormat]

I didn't use any personal insults. . .

I only get annoyed when I feel an idiot is being stupid (ie you posting).

And I thought only goldfish had a 3 second memory....

[Stewsburntmonkey]

If you notice I saved the insult until after I said I hadn't used any insults. I could go into an explaination of English grammar here, but I assume you don't need such an explaination.

Yet again what I said was entirely correct. . .

[The GoldFish]

And I thought only goldfish had a 3 second memory....

I'm the only one who thinks my idea is a good idea too, apparently