The end of riligion?

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The end of riligion?

Postby ToRmEnToR » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:37 pm

Just heard about the catholic church announcing bankruptcy... Funny.


Your thoughts on this subject?
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Postby Adriac » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:39 pm

OW! OW! MISSPELLING HURTS BRAIN!

The Catholic church hardly represents all of organized religion, let alone religion itself.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:43 pm

It is only one Archdiocese (in Portland, OR). In any event it does not mean a great deal about the religion itself, it just means that the organization doesn't have the money to cover its debts (stemming from the abuse law suits).
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Postby ToRmEnToR » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:55 pm

I'm not saying that religion came to its end. Religion in general slowly walks towards its end. First the number of people who choose not to worship god grew, and now a 'house of god' is closed because some guy who was denied from sex for all his life tried to rape children or something.

I'm not talking about this specific event, but about the slow process in general.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:05 pm

There is no plan to close the house of god due to the bankruptcy. The churches will still be open and will still celebrate mass as normal. All this does is keep creditors from suing the Archdiocese if it doesn't pay it debts.

Religion as a institution is fading, but spirituality is still going well. Religion has become more liberalized and so the tight organizations are fading, but the belief is still largely there. :)
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Postby ToRmEnToR » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:16 pm

Hrm, I guess you are right, I didnt write my first post down properly. When I was refering to 'religion' in my original post, I was refering to it as I would to an institute.

I agree with what you said here:
Religion as a institution is fading, but spirituality is still going well. Religion has become more liberalized and so the tight organizations are fading, but the belief is still largely there.
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Postby Darksun » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:21 pm

The Catholic Church is still filthy rich, although most of it is locked up in artwork and whatnot
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Postby Rkiver » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:51 pm

And don't forget all the gold they stole during the Crusades and from the Templar Knights, oh wait they made statues with that, yes "art". :roll:
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Postby graius_uplink » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:27 pm

which a pope removed the genitalia from
If you wish peace of soul and happiness, believe. If you would be a disciple of truth, inquire. -- Nietzche

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Postby ODDin » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:47 pm

Well, the number of atheists in the world is growing, I believe, so religion is also dying spiritually.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:27 pm

First there are atheistic religions, Taoism in the purist form is atheistic. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god, so it is not really the antithesis of spirituality. In any event what you might call atheism is rather rare according to most studies (though it is very hard to get any accuracy with this particular question). Most studies I have seen put the worldwide percentage at 2-3%. I don't think there is any real evidence of any increase of percentage, actually it seems in many ways that it is shrinking. While it is becoming more common in Western nations (Europe especially) persistant conversion to Islam and Christianity in developing nations is likely countering any growth in "atheism". :)
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Postby ODDin » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:52 pm

The growth of atheism in civilized countries is enough to prove the point.
The developing countries are on a lower stage of civilization. It's like looking into the past - sure, THEN the religion was much stronger. Eventully they will get here (I hope), and we'll see atheism growing there too.

However, what I did notice is that the civilized world is moving from Christian spirituality into western spirituality. We are moving, once again, from pure and cold logic to spirituality. Suddenly, all those things become very "fashinable". Stuff like alternative healing (is that the English term for that? But hopefully you understand what I mean), feng-shui and stuff like that...
I find it rather interesting - if not disturbing.

Perhaps it's jsut another twist of civilization, according to the theory of spiral developing - we've passed the current age of reason, and are entering a new age of spirituality.
Frankly, I don't like that. I prefer reason.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:06 pm

So like I said spirituality not dieing. . .
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Postby Syrtis » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:34 pm

If you ask me.....religion is one of the dumbest ideas ever started by man kind...if you haven't guessed by now....I'm an atheist. Now....I grew up until now as a Christian, never had much of a problem with it, until now - cause now I see how horrid Religion can be. Religion is the cause of more than half the wars fought in history (one of the most devastating being World War II, which was fought because that Damned nazi Hitler was killing people cause they were "inferior". especially jewish people) But anyway....off that. Now, you may think that since I was a christian and now an atheist that I find something deeply wrong with Christianity...well, you're right on the money. The thing I thought I hated about Christianity was that if anyone spoke out against their religion in older times...they were killed. However I recently found out that Jewish people, and Muslims also have a history of doing this. However....what CHRISTIANS DO DO, something that other religions generally don't, is hire MISSIONARIES!!!! god damnit i hate missionaries. With christians....they go to places where there is no religion (oh the paradice that must be) and CONVERT people into christians!!! they do so by being sneaky...and opening such things as schools in places of poverty where there would otherwise not be any schooling and say "you have to be christian to go to this school". Now this is just SICK. Christians say they want WORLD PEACE...do they expect to do this by turning everyone into a damned CHRISTIAN!? arg.

Its seems that most of the time....one religion thinks that they are better than any other religion....take christianity for example....they send out missionaries to "save" the people who don't believe in God (like me), so that they won't have to go to hell and live the afterlife in eternal suffering. well...that pretty much says that Christianity is what is true and that no other religion (bhuddism, hinduism, judaeism) nothing is existant but christianity. so that pretty much means that they don't accept others' beliefs....so christianity is kinda contradictory. Now...know this everyone, just cause I'm an atheist myself and have a lot to say against christianity does not mean I hate christians....

Well, that's my rant for this one, later :twisted:
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:48 pm

WWII was not faught over religion. Hitler was non-religious and his persecutuion of the Jews was racial, not religious. Power is the cause of wars, religion is just a manifestation of power. Without religion there would have been just as many (if not more) wars. I think it is a very shallow view of history that drives people say things like religion causes most wars.

Certainly Christianity is a religion based on conversion, and you can certainly critises the missionaries' actions, but most missionary work does not force conversion, it is done to demonstrate the careing and outreach of the religion. If it had not been for Christian mercy it is likely the West would not be where it is today. Christians for centuries provided most of the medical care, social care, and education of the West and so has provided hugely beneficial services that made the world a much better place.

Christianity need not be an exclusive religion (it need not hold all other religions are incorrect). This notition I feel is a cultural one not one inherent to the message of Christianity.

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