Allright, first off its spelled Martyrs.
You said you don't want to take the debate to such a low level... Don't
act like you're an English pro because you aren't.
But there are fundamentalists on the Israeli too, that move to
Israel out of religous zeal, and that wants to live in the "holy land
given to them by god" blah blah etc etc
No, they came here for ideological reasons, which are legit. Israel is
a liberal country, therefore- we have the freedom of religion so every
Jewish can come here simply because his ideology says so without being
called: "fundamentalist".
The Palestinains claim for this land also because of sort of
ideological beliefs, so in the same way you can't call them all:
"fundamentalists", do you?
Yes, go on.. Spell it out please and prove my earlier point,
call me an anit-semite. Thats what Israelis usually do when you critisize
them, their culture of violence, their religon, Isreal's policies etc
etc etc..
And yet I can't find your defence here... Your fear of being called
"anti semitist" stops you?
But you are quick to judge both arab culture, Islam and the
palestinan cause.. And nobody is calling you a racist for that unless you
are a zionist.
Nope, none of us ever said we are better in any way. In my opinion they
need to judge themselves to see what damage they are causing... And we
don't really judge them here, we just analyze them- which is fine!
Or that you dont trust my sources on this, you dont really need
any sources, you only need to know the policy of the group that was
involved in the Sabra & Shatila massacre(and they did know their policy)
We are not discussing of an act that has nothing to do with our current
crisis. However, we have not reason to trust something we don't know
from you as long as we don't get sources\proves.
"Also, many unrelated eye witnesses have said Israeli troops
participated in the massacres."
These facts are historically not true, what else can I add?
BTW Insults wont do you no good or make me sad
Shit...
This has been explained allready, by both me and
Stewsburntmonkey. Lets move on.
No, I don't think there was an agreement here.
"First of all, how is this racist? Zionism is a political
movement among Jews holding that the Jewish people constitute a nation and
are entitled to a national homeland. How's this different from Americans
before they won British? NOWHERE it says that only jews can live in
Israel.
What do you think of that? How can you claim for a Palestinian state
when you don't recognize our right to build our homeland in the holy land
("blah, blah")?
Yeah, the reason is probably that you have to build security
barriers and security zones there to keep out the terrorism you are
feeding.
No, the reason he is talking about his that we destroy the houses of
suicide bombers after their acts. If someone wants to bomb himself he
should probably know that his family will lost its house. Sad but true.
So.. What makes your muslim friends more reliable on this than
mine?
He just said he believes he had more diversified friend. In fact, I
think it doesn't really matter. If you want to know the real face of the
fundamentalist arab world you should go 10 minutes from my house and see
a bombed restaurant with an andante to the 17 people that were killed
there. BTW, the irony is that all the restaurants that were bombed in my
city are hold by Israeli-arabs...
Of course there are *some* good Israelis
So what are the "bad" ISraelis?
This childish point of view could be really cute if it wasn't so serious.
An israeli ambassador Zvi Mazel, after destroying a piece of
art, he refuses to leave the museum and calling people who tries to ask
him POLITELY to leave for anti-semites and caliming they are supportin
"mass murder of jews".. It needs to be said that the author of this piece
of art was jewish..
If a "piece of art" offends somebody, it should not be presented-
especially when it refers to the Israeli-Palestinian crisis.
The "piece of art" showed a pool of blood, and a boat, under the
caption of "cinderella" floating on top of the blood with the picture of the
female suicide bomber who murdered 20 Israelis, 4 of them under were
the age of 12, including 2 babies, while having dinner in a restaurant in
Haifa- my city. I know a family who lost 5 people in that attack.
And about the "artist": He is an extremist left-winged person who has a
sympathy to the Palestinian side. He he is Israeli anymore. He
presented his "art" in a disgusting way. He is not marry to a Jewish woman, he
lost his Jewish roots, he talks against Israel, and perhaps he is not
Anti-semitist, but he is obviously anti-Israeli!
Arafat has no real power
His organization has no real power because the streets follow the
extremist way of the terrorism organizations, but he is a powerful
personality there.
What has arafat to do with this, dont give me that "he controls
the terrorist organisations" bullshit, because we both know that isnt
true.
No, we don't!
Here are quotes from his speeches to his people:
"They [Palestinian rioters] will fight for Allah, and they will kill
and be killed, and this is a solemn oath. . . . Our blood is cheap
compared with the cause which has brought us together and which at moments
separated us, but shortly we will meet again in heaven... Palestine is
our land and Jerusalem is our capital.
- Yassir Arafat, quoted in Arafat and the Uses of Terror, Commentary
Magazine, by Jonathan Torop, a Soref research fellow at the Washington
Institute for Near East Policy.
The sheer number of jihad speeches given by Arafat since the signing of
Oslo I in September 1993 is nothing short of astonishing. One of the
most notorious occurred at a mosque in South Africa in 1994. During an
event closed to the media, the chairman proclaimed:
"The jihad will continue. . . . You have to understand our main battle
is Jerusalem... You have to come and fight a jihad to liberate
Jerusalem, your precious shrine. . . . No, it is not their capital. It is our
capital.
"Arafat echoed the South Africa speech literally dozens of times in
1995 and 1996. On June 19, 1995, he was filmed at Al-Azhar University in
Gaza:
"We are all seekers of martyrdom in the path of truth and right toward
Jerusalem, the capital of the state of Palestine. The commitment stands
and the oath is firm to continue this long and arduous jihad in the
path of martyrdom and sacrifices. . . . The commitment still stands and
the oath is still firm to continue this difficult jihad, this long jihad,
this arduous jihad in the path of martyrs, the path of sacrifices, but
this is a path of victory and glory.
Shortly after the violence committed by PA police in September 1996,
Arafat announced again:
"We will be willing to die as martyrs until our flag flies over
Jerusalem. No one should believe they can frighten us with weapons. We have
much stronger weapons, the weapon of belief, the weapon of sacrifice, the
weapon of jihad. . . . We shall continue the jihad, the long jihad, a
complex jihad, a jihad of attrition, of holy death. Warfare is our only
way to victory. The path of glory, the path of jihad."
[- Yassir Arafat, quoted in Arafat and the Uses of Terror, Commentary
Magazine, by Jonathan Torop, a Soref research fellow at the Washington
Institute for Near East Policy.]
Yasser Arafat: "I am willing to sacrifice 70 to die to kill 1
Israeli"
In a fiery speech in Ramallah today, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat
called for more martyrdom, reportedly saying: "I am willing to sacrifice
70 to die to kill one Israeli."
Israel Radio West Bank correspondent Avi Yissakharov reported Arafat
declared "all Palestinians are Muhammad al-Dura," that all Palestinians
are martyrs. Al-Dura was a 12-year-old boy killed in the Gaza Strip last
year while his father tried to protect him from crossfire between
Palestinian snipers and Israeli Defense Forces.
Arafat called for all to join in the struggle to stop what he termed
the Israeli program to Judaize Jerusalem.
The crowd roared back to Arafat, "Millions of martyrs are already
marching to Jerusalem."
Israel Television Channel Two reported this evening that Arafat also
told the crowd, "I am willing to sacrifice 70 martyrs to kill one
Israeli" and called for a continuation of the struggle against Israel.
Arafat's fiery rhetoric in Arabic stands in stark contrast to his more
conciliatory statements in English in which he has agreed to stop
attacks on Israelis.
******************************************************************************
Palestinans are a PEOPLE. They dont need a nation for that
really, the kurds are a people too and they dont have a nation either.
Also, who that has a nation or not is pretty much decided by the
majority of the world's countries. Some arab countries dont acknowledge the
existance of Israel and if most countries in the world wouldnt, your
country would no longer be deemed to exist.
Sayin "they are just arabs" is just a way to make their claims to some
of the land look less legit.
The term "Palestinian" is itself a masterful twisting of history. To
portray themselves as indigenous, Arab settlers adopted the name of an
ancient Canaanite tribe, the Phillistines, that died out almost 3000
years ago. The connection between this tribe and modern day Arabs is nil.
Who is to know the difference? Given the absence of any historical
record, one can understand why Yasser Arafat claims that Jesus Christ, a
Jewish carpenter from the Galilee, was a Palestinian. Every year, at
Christmas time, Arafat goes to Bethlehem and tells worshippers that Jesus
was in fact "the first Palestinian".
OK, enough for one day, my fingers are tired...
