Griefers List

General discussion about Defcon

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CptDarknuggets
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Postby CptDarknuggets » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:30 pm

I backstab all the time its the best way. although i quit the alliance first. I am a proper gentleman
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Spacemonkey
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Postby Spacemonkey » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:04 pm

CptDarknuggets wrote:I backstab all the time its the best way. although i quit the alliance first. I am a proper gentleman


I agree, I think you you leave the alliance, then attack, you are not really backstabbing, you're just attacking an enemy, they get warning, and the ability to defend themselves, they should be prepared for it anyway.

What I don't like is when people attack the silos and radars of their ally while they are still allied, that, is what I called backstabbing.
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Postby MrBunsy » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:13 pm

Spacemonkey wrote:
CptDarknuggets wrote:I backstab all the time its the best way. although i quit the alliance first. I am a proper gentleman


I agree, I think you you leave the alliance, then attack, you are not really backstabbing, you're just attacking an enemy, they get warning, and the ability to defend themselves, they should be prepared for it anyway.

What I don't like is when people attack the silos and radars of their ally while they are still allied, that, is what I called backstabbing.
Personnally I think the ability to do that is brilliant! I haven't used it myself yet, but saw it executed perfectly in a game ealier today.
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ERTO
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Postby ERTO » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:21 pm

Spacemonkey wrote:
CptDarknuggets wrote:I backstab all the time its the best way. although i quit the alliance first. I am a proper gentleman


I agree, I think you you leave the alliance, then attack, you are not really backstabbing, you're just attacking an enemy, they get warning, and the ability to defend themselves, they should be prepared for it anyway.

What I don't like is when people attack the silos and radars of their ally while they are still allied, that, is what I called backstabbing.


And what's so wrong about that? That's the POINT of backstabbing: surprise! If you give away your surprise before you do it, then you're giving an advantage to the enemy -- the only advantage, at that. You get your warning when you see the launch icons and hear the big klaxxon that sounds. If you need any more than that, then having all your cities glowing should serve as a lesson to pay more attention to the homefront. :)

Backstabbing isn't essential, but it's one tool to use in an overall strategy. I played a game as Russia recently where I reeeaalllly angered the allied European player by wiping out all of his silos, airbases, and radar dishes with a fleet of subs in roughly 60 seconds while he was busy micromanaging some bomb-run over America. He panned his screen back over to find his entire continent aglow! ;) And THEN I broke the alliance to have at the cities. Nice? Nope! But if you're going to cross someone, there's no need to pretend to be civil about it. The downside is that if you open up a big enough lead, everyone wants a piece of you -- all the other players allied against me and completely leveled all of Russia in one of the most spectacular gang-ups I've ever seen. I mean, I had like 3 million people left by the end of the game. Still won, but just barely.
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DueAccident
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Postby DueAccident » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:06 am

I agree with ERTO, the ability to attack radar/silo's is brilliant. If if happens to you, you obviously aren't paying enough attention to your continent, and will serve as a reminder to watch your "allies" closer. :P
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Postby KudrigY » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:22 am

None of my backstabbers lived to see their nicknames ahead of me in score, but surprisingly, many have tried. I won 75% of those games one way or the other. And on those 25%, I did everything in my power (even ally with former enemy to let him see "new" targets or things like that) to level my backstabber to stone age, with many successes.


I do not backstab myself, but I see no problems if someone else tries to do that to me. I just adore to wipe smiles off their faces with some carefully aimed sub-launched nukes just after they start launching their silos...


But I think we should make a list of decent HOSTS, not disconnectors, etc. That would do more good than this list...
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KungFuAlex
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Postby KungFuAlex » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:41 am

KudrigY wrote:

But I think we should make a list of decent HOSTS, not disconnectors, etc. That would do more good than this list...


I agree on that. This list is, in my opinion, silly. No offence.
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mstcr0w5429
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Postby mstcr0w5429 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:46 am

KungFuAlex wrote:
KudrigY wrote:

But I think we should make a list of decent HOSTS, not disconnectors, etc. That would do more good than this list...


I agree on that. This list is, in my opinion, silly. No offence.


Do you have a list of player names to contribute to such a list?
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Postby GFree » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:26 am

Let's see...

I've "respectfully-backstabbed" once (i.e. left allience first,then quickly launched nukes against my prior comrads). That turned out to be absolutely disasterous for me. :evil: I do not see many more backstabs of my own doing happening in the near future.

I've disconnected due to being caught with my pants down several times. I will generally disconnect if the enemy manages such an amazing attack that there was NEVER any chance of me defending properly. The really good, coordinated attacks irritate me too much to continue. I'm here for fun, which means killing everyone else, not having myself truly obliterated. That's not fun, it's embarassing.

Report me on your list, I don't care.
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Spacemonkey
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Postby Spacemonkey » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:33 am

ERTO wrote:
Spacemonkey wrote:What I don't like is when people attack the silos and radars of their ally while they are still allied, that, is what I called backstabbing.


And what's so wrong about that? That's the POINT of backstabbing: surprise! If you give away your surprise before you do it, then you're giving an advantage to the enemy -- the only advantage, at that. You get your warning when you see the launch icons and hear the big klaxxon that sounds. If you need any more than that, then having all your cities glowing should serve as a lesson to pay more attention to the homefront. :)


I'm not saying it's wrong, just that there is a difference between attacking an allied silo, and leaving an alliance. I don't think the latter should be considered backstabbing, all it is is changing alliances.
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Postby HermanKahn » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:37 am

Add "Robert" to the quitters list as well. In addition to being a complete jackass by spamming the communication console with utter infantile garbage which had the effect of making communication totally impossible, he shut down the server during the final moments of my greatest game ever. I came back by several hundred points from second to last place to second, and from the number of missiles in the air still going towards their targets it was clear that I was going to win. Bastard. At least I got a screenshot.
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DingerX
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Postby DingerX » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:52 am

I was left wondering what the connection was between backstabbing and quitting/shutting down servers.

Well, they are all actions that are possible within the program, but that have a negative social effect on the players.
The difference is that backstabbing occurs within the game, whereas quitting or killing the server destroys the game.

Killing the server is just wrong. If you're going to host, be a good host and treat your guests right. Nobody would join a game where the host advertised: "I will run a game so long as it pleases me", so the assumption must be that the host is ethically bound to let the game go on.

Quitting: well, when I get whipped to a bloody pulp, I'll stay around for two reasons. I want to be a nuisance to everyone else, and I want to perhaps learn from my adversaries. How did my ass get kicked so badly? Still, I have to say, plenty of players don't really see much join in waiting 2 hours when they've got nothing left, especially when someone is micromanaging everything at 1x. Also, connection problems, crashes and real life do happen, so sometimes people are going to leave.

What would help these circumstances:
A) A situation where a host could leave the game without closing the server, effectively handing control of his/her forces to the CPU. Sure, it may seem cowardly, but it's better than leaving everything.
B) some basic AI (or rules) for a CPU to leave an alliance. If a player quits, the allies don't need to worry about that player, ever.
C) A "slowest time selectable" rule that can differ between DEFCON 4 and 5 and DEFCON 1-3. I have no problem with micromanaging nor 1x speed, but a "sore loser" or inexperienced player can intentionally or not irritate everybody by dropping to 1x to micromanage a complete overkill strike. A large group of players are perfectly comfortable at 5x in Defcon 1-3, but forcing 5x at Defcon 4-5 gives trouble to all but the most amphetamine-addled denizens of some Seoul net cafe: 3 minutes is not enough time to place all the basic units.

Backstabbing: there is a selectable rule about whether one can leave an alliance or not. There is also the option to kick someone from an alliance. Backstabbing is an honored part of the game. Of course, most backstabbers do it for the conceptual joy of it, and inevitably screw themselves. But a good backstab is a work of art. No sense of being honorable. When you're in an alliance, you're in it for your maximum benefit, which may or may not correspond to the maximum benefit of your allies -- your goal is to negotiate, compromise and wheedle so that your allies' benefit is less than your own; their goal is the same. If you're not taking advantage of a cease fire before leaving the alliance, you're not getting maximum benefit.
If you're gonna shoot, shoot; don't talk.
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Postby LordSturm » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:59 am

Honestly how can you call backstabbing grieving... :P ( Add any player who knows what hes doing, as someone said above. :P )

You may as well add a list of "people who beat me." and "people who were hard to beat." and "people i did not like."

How bout "people who launched nukes." and "people who depth charged my subs."

<_<

Just focus on people who disconnect without requesting a graceful leave ( being verbal only considering the software does not support such a system. ) Please do remember you are leaving a stupid annoying CPU in your place.

I don't know about you, but i find it hard to negotiate with terror... i mean CPU's.
"Surely you didn't mean to press that button just then did you?"
"No, nor will i disarm the nukes."
"Oh well, I will have my Fighters shoot them down."
"Sure you will."
"Oh NOES, ITS BEEN PATCHED!!!"
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Postby almo » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:02 pm

There's no way to verify if the person reporting is telling the truth.
Almo!
Game Programmer - Behaviour Interactive
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mstcr0w5429
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Postby mstcr0w5429 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:09 pm

almo wrote:There's no way to verify if the person reporting is telling the truth.


I'm working on that. Any suggestions?

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