i'd like to learn a programing language!

[Angry Armadillo]

***WARNING non uplink related topic ***

ok, so id like to learn a programming language, altough im not not sure which one would be right for me,

i know i dont want to be creating websites so no php etc,

my only experience in programming was a little html, so basically im a prgrammin n00b

id like you peoples to suggest languages and tell me what sort of things you can do with the language,

also i would like to know if a need more editing tools than just notepad, because i BELIEVE (i.e not sure )
that for c you ned a code editor and a compiler


any help appriciated [sp] (lol,  end the post with a spelling mistake!!)

[bgreene2001]

First, HTML is not a programming language, it's a markup language

Alright, now, whatever you program in, you're going to need a compiler.  You don't need any code editor apart from your favourite text editor (notpad, UltraEdit, etc) for most languages (VB/Delphi are the only ones I know of where you'd want the editor).  I'd recomend maybe something like Java to start off with (fantastic documentation/language reference on sun's site), and if you get into that a bit, maybe move onto c then c++.  Make sure you learn proper design and object oriented approach from the start, as it can be difficult to get the concept of objects/classes, then later inheritance and polymorphism etc after you learn procedural programming.
There are plenty of free compilers, etc available for any language, and the Java semi-compiler/virtual machine is available free from sun.  Just get the Java SDK latest version.

I'd recomend UltraEdit as a text editor, it has syntax hilighting, line numbers, save to/load form ftp, line hilighting, tabbed editing, and I believe it can also link to compilers (I havent used that though).  Notepad should be fine for any of the languages I have mentioned though.

Hope this helps

[Angry Armadillo]

Quote: from bgreene2001 on 10:50 am on Aug. 19, 2003[br]First, HTML is not a programming language, it's a markup language

doh *slaps head* ML - markup language silly me

yes this helps a lot thank you but one more thing can i get a link to 'suns' site so i can have a look at the documentation,

[NeoThermic]

Quote: from Angry Armadillo on 10:41 am on Aug. 19, 2003[br]my only experience in programming was a little html, so basically im a prgrammin n00b

HTML != programming
HTML == Scripting
there is a diffrence, as you dont compile HTML to run it, it gets interperated and displayed.
Since you have never dabbled with any real porgramming, this makes it quite difficult to give an indication of what language could suit you. You would be best to learn C++, although for a starting language, thats quite a challenge.

I learnt qbasic, then VB, then C++, which is a good way to learn through, but it does leave alot of bad habbits when you get to C++...

C++ is quite powerful, its main advantagegs is speed, portability, and power. Its not exactly suited to Rapid Application Development. [RAD]

VB is also powerful, but not in the C++ way. VB has the advantages of being a RAD language, meaning that you can make a full application for your needs in well under half the time that it would take in other languages.
The disadvantage of VB is that it requires the dll pack to work on other computers, but it will not work on non microsoft platforms, and in comparison to C++, its quite slow.

There are other languages, such as Delphi [like VB], and then the .net languages VB.net and C#, but I would leave those until you become a seasoned programmer...

All the languages described above use their own editor and compiler, for C++ and VB, its best to get the Microsoft Visual Studio, although you can try your hand at VB by finding the free VB 5 CCE version on their website.

Hope this information helps
NeoThermic

[Angry Armadillo]

has a gander at the VB site...

[Angry Armadillo]

ok i think i will try my hand at VB

do you know any links to a freeware/shareware (me = cheapskate :biggrin:)
compilers and editors

[Angry Armadillo]

i got myself a compiler from here...

http://www.freebyte.com/programming/compilers/envelop.html

and i am on the look for an editor

is there anything else i will need?

[Phydaux]

Quote: from Angry Armadillo on 11:11 am on Aug. 19, 2003[br]ok i think i will try my hand at VB

do you know any links to a freeware/shareware (me = cheapskate :biggrin:)
compilers and editors

FYI keep a look out in charity shops and second hand stores. I picked up Borlands C++ Development Suite (I can't remember what version, it's over my g/f's house) for £2 in a PDSA shop :biggrin:

And if your interested in programming for a hobby, I'd suggest the old QBasic. It's more powerfull than people give it credit for. It does have the usual issues of not working that well on new machines, and needing a win environment.

[bgreene2001]

I'd personally still recommend Java as a first language if you're going to get seriously into programming.  It's easy enough, it's object oriented, and it's completely free.  Oh, and it's cross-platform (even if it does excecute slowly, being practically a scripting language).

I don't like VB, for two reasons.  You need Microsoft's proprietary and very expensive IDE, and a lot of the object-style things will only confuse you if you want to go to a proper oo language later.

QBasic isn't *too* bad as a procedural language, but it's not object oriented, and you can do much better.  I also don't like the editor too much (This from the person whose current editor is vim )

It's up to you where you want to start though.  the BASIC variants are easier now, Java etc will make it easier later, and probably make you a better programmer.

[Hektik sniper]

the first language i learned was QB which was stupidly easy but its redundant now.

[Stewsburntmonkey]

I am going to second bgreene2001's recommendation of Java.  It is a modern and actually practical language with the best documentation of any major language.  It is also nicely standardized.  Portability is also a very nice feature.  It is also a very good way to get into object oriented programming (the new thing).  I would recommend getting an IDE (integrated development environment) for any compiled language you try as it makes things much easier.  I use JCreator for Java work as it is free and a very nice IDE.  The documentation for the latest version of Java is [url=java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/]here[/url].  :)

[Angry Armadillo]

^ thanks,

the visual basic downloads didn't seem to work to well so im gonna try those links

EDIT:

i looked at the documentation and that gets an O for overwhelming, i dont really understand what that website is about.

i am going to search for some java tutorials now, does anyone know any good ones?


(Edited by Angry Armadillo at 4:40 pm on Aug. 19, 2003)

[bgreene2001]

I'm not sure about tutorials, but anyway the best way to get into things like this is to get a good book.  Our textbook (Big Java) is alright, but I have no standard to compare it against.

Once you get into programming java, you will see the significance of the documentation.  It is basically every method, attribute, constructor (all object oriented stuff), etc, that you can use in the Java language.  Say if you wanted to do a dns app to query a dns server, you would use a 'URL' object and the INetHandler or something similar class.  It's also good for converting between types, things like that.

I would also recommend you learn how to plan, comment, and maybe document properly, instead of just code.  You might be the best coder in the world, but if you don't plan, you're dot going to be able to work on anything big, and if you don't comment and document, you're never going to get hired past your first job

Apart from that, if you need help and I've got time, I might write a little introduction to programming in Java tomorrow (nothing too big, introduction to control structures, oo programming (class/object/etc, etc))

[Jackmn]

Jcreator pales in comparison to Gel

Being natively compiled for win32, it runs quickly. Also, it has all the features of jcreator pro.

(Edited by Jackmn at 4:55 pm on Aug. 19, 2003)

[Starfyre]

I'd start with QBASIC, even though it's redundant; it gives you a feel for the basic boolean operators and command structure, plus, it's fun and well documented all acrosst the net.

Next, I learned Pascal, and after that, Delphi. Delphi is very easy to learn, and the Personal, non-profit version is available free at Borland after a signup.
Then I learned some C and C++ with the "For Dummies" books (so I know the basics, not much more).
After that I went into Visual Basic for Applications, grazed through HTML and am now learning PHP

Of course, that's only my course, you can also start with Visual basic, lots of literature available on that as well.




For a nice challenge, try Brainfuck :biggrin: