More guns, no guns, gun control? *BANG! BANG!!*

The place to hang out and talk about totally anything general.

What is your stance on gun proliferation?

I own a gun. I DON'T TRUST MY DAMN NEIGHBOUR!!!
2
2%
I own several guns, I'm a hitman .(shhhh don't tell anyone)
3
4%
Change the constitution. Outlaw guns once and for all!
14
16%
GIMME A FLAMETHROWER!
2
2%
Nukes for everyone!
7
8%
I don't own one right now, but I seek to acquire some soon as I'm planning a massacre.
2
2%
I'm a hippie. WADDUA THINK I MEAN?? *punches you in the face*
0
No votes
I don't like guns. When I kill people I use a dildo.
5
6%
mmmmmmmmmmmmy Glock.
1
1%
Strict gun control is the way to go.
18
21%
If everyone had guns, less violence would be the result.
11
13%
I'm in a gun club, I only shoot for pleasure.
2
2%
I'm in a gun club, I train for home defense.
3
4%
I like bananas.
6
7%
OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3
4%
Militias is our only hope.
6
7%
 
Total votes: 85
User avatar
Xocrates
level5
level5
Posts: 5262
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:34 pm

Postby Xocrates » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:54 am

Feud wrote:If you think I'm obsessed, I know a few (dozen) guys that you'd just love. ;)

Oh, I never claimed that you're obsessed, but I recall you posting multiples times about your latest acquisition an whatnot (pictures included) while knowing full well that we wouldn't really appreciate it. That's what I meant with fascination :P

Also, out of morbid curiosity, any specific European "norm" that you find unsettling which you're willing to share?
User avatar
zjoere
level5
level5
Posts: 1623
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Belgium

Postby zjoere » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:58 pm

Feud wrote:I do think the best way to get people to change their mind is to take them shooting. SOOOO much fun.


I might enjoy shooting if I could combine it with diplomatic immunity or something like that. Then I can shoot ALL THE PEOPLE! :lol:
You're so vain, you probably think this sig is about you
DHKold
level1
level1
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:29 am

Postby DHKold » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:05 pm

Can I get an atomic weapon if I promise only to use it for self defense?
User avatar
Feud
level5
level5
Posts: 5149
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Blackacre, VA

Postby Feud » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:10 pm

Xocrates wrote:Oh, I never claimed that you're obsessed, but I recall you posting multiples times about your latest acquisition an whatnot (pictures included) while knowing full well that we wouldn't really appreciate it. That's what I meant with fascination :P

Also, out of morbid curiosity, any specific European "norm" that you find unsettling which you're willing to share?


Who's "we"? ;)

On the sillier end, male swimwear. Seems like every time I see a picture of European beaches it's a dazzling display speedos and male thongs.
User avatar
Xocrates
level5
level5
Posts: 5262
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:34 pm

Postby Xocrates » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:29 pm

Feud wrote:Who's "we"? ;)

Compare the number of people who seem to enjoy you posting about it Vs the people that clearly don't :P

Feud wrote:On the sillier end, male swimwear. Seems like every time I see a picture of European beaches it's a dazzling display speedos and male thongs.

Well, that's unsettling to us too you know. ;)

That said, I don't recall the last time I saw someone in a speedo.
madison11
level0
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:46 pm

Hello

Postby madison11 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:49 pm

hahahaha, this would be the best one: "I don't own one right now, but I seek to acquire some soon as I'm planning a massacre." Hope I can try massacre... :)

<suspicious spam snipped>
User avatar
Ace Rimmer
level5
level5
Posts: 10803
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: The Multiverse

Postby Ace Rimmer » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:30 pm

^ Spam or nut?

Mom hides children, shoots intruder Paul Ali Slater 5 times wrote:LOGANVILLE, Ga. [USA] — A Georgia mother hid her two 9-year-old twins and shot an intruder, Paul Ali Slater, several times during a home invasion on Friday, according to multiple media reports.

The Loganville mother said she didn’t initially answer when someone knocked on her door around 1 p.m. Friday. When the visitor began repeatedly ringing the doorbell, she called her husband at work, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution. He then dialed 911 and his 37-year-old wife gathered their 9-year-old twins and hid them in a crawlspace inside the home. According to the report, the intruder then forced his way into the home and started “rummaging” through the family’s belongings. When the suspect went into the closet where the family was hiding ,the woman fired six bullets at the suspect, five of which hit alleged suspect Paul Ali Slater in the face and neck area.

“He opens the closet door and finds himself staring down the barrel of a .38 revolver,” Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

The woman fled to a neighbor’s home with her children. The woman and her two children were not injured. The injured intruder stumbled out of the home and attempted to flee in his car. However, he crashed into a wooded area and collapsed in a neighbor’s driveway, according to WSB-TV. The suspect was arrested at the scene. He was taken to a nearby hospital and is expected to survive. The victim’s husband said he’s proud of his wife.

“My wife is a hero. She protected her kids. She did what she was supposed to do as responsible, prepared gun owner,” Donnie Herman told WSB-TV.

Question 1: Did the gun 'save' her and/or her kids. If not, what could/should she have done to avoid potential danger without a gun.

Questoin 2: Do you agree with her husband?

Lastly, point blank range six times and he lives... I hope he is very thankful to be alive. :shock:
User avatar
Xocrates
level5
level5
Posts: 5262
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:34 pm

Postby Xocrates » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:01 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:Question 1: Did the gun 'save' her and/or her kids.

Who knows? Frankly the story has enough holes to make it questionable if the use of the gun was even necessary (did the intruder know there was someone in the house? The article implies he didn't, which makes me question what makes them so sure he would break in even if he knew they were there).

The gun "saving" them makes sense if we assume a worst case scenario, which of course raises the question of why is it that a million to one chance justifies all the other worst case scenarios of owning a gun in a house with two kids.

Frankly, the article does a crap job at supporting either side. It does not make the gun seem a necessity, but the use of it does not seem inappropriate (although, perhaps, a bit exaggerated)
User avatar
Ace Rimmer
level5
level5
Posts: 10803
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: The Multiverse

Postby Ace Rimmer » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:07 pm

Xocrates wrote:Frankly, the article does a crap job at supporting either side. It does not make the gun seem a necessity, but the use of it does not seem inappropriate (although, perhaps, a bit exaggerated)

I thought that was the point of reporting, to just state the facts (as known), not editorialize. :wink:
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
User avatar
Xocrates
level5
level5
Posts: 5262
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:34 pm

Postby Xocrates » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:23 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:I thought that was the point of reporting, to just state the facts (as known), not editorialize. :wink:

My point was more along the lines of "the known facts do a crap job at supporting either side" :P

Or in other words, that article is pretty useless for this discussion since it doesn't bring anything new to the table.
User avatar
zjoere
level5
level5
Posts: 1623
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Belgium

Postby zjoere » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:57 pm

The door banging and ringing seems to suggest he was trying to confirm if someone was home? And since noone answered maybe he thought it was safe to do a bit of burglary. What she could have done was turn on the lights in the house. We once heard strange noises at our front door and turned on the lights in the house. The next morning it turned someone had tried to break open the front door. So the lights and the fact that people are home is enough to scare some criminals away.
She could have called the cops first instead of her husband and just hide and wait without a gun.

Also getting shot in the face 5 times sounds painful.
You're so vain, you probably think this sig is about you
User avatar
Feud
level5
level5
Posts: 5149
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Blackacre, VA

Postby Feud » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:18 pm

Where does the article imply that he didn't know anyone was home?

It says she didn't initially answer the door, which suggests that the answer wasn't immediate, not that it didn't happen at all. (Other articles mention her yelling to her children nearest the door not to open it to a stranger, as she was in a different part of the house when the stranger began knocking/ringing.) It is also worth stating that the burglar was armed with a crowbar.

Also, it should be noted that the police in America have no legal obligation to protect either person or property, unless they specifically extend it to a person. Otherwise they would be liable for any crime thus committed. It should also be kept in mind that even under the best of circumstances, police response times are usually four or five minutes or more. In rural areas, this can increase to upwards of half an hour.

That all being said, while there may have been things that might have been done to further discourage the intruder, that he forced himself into an occupied private residence is justification enough to use a gun. There is a great way not to get shot by homeowners in this country: don't break into their homes. Didn't know someone was home? Well, that problem could have been easily solved by not breaking in.

When an intruder has entered into a private domain, they give those within every reason to fear for their own safety, and the safety of their family. It should not be the duty of a homeowner to, at that point, then determine whether they mean to only break this law or that one, whether they mean to only smash things but also people. A person who has forced themselves into a home is a reasonable risk to the occupants thereof, and a parent not only has the right, they have a moral duty, to protect the family therein in the most effective means available at that time.

****************

By the way: the minimum safe distance for a trained person armed with a gun to be from an aggressor without one is considered to be about 21'. At distances shorter than that, if the person with the gun does not act first then the aggressor is likely able to close the distance before effective stopping fire can be delivered. Police pratice it with what's called the Tueller Drill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
User avatar
Xocrates
level5
level5
Posts: 5262
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:34 pm

Postby Xocrates » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:43 pm

Feud wrote:Where does the article imply that he didn't know anyone was home?

It says she didn't initially answer the door, which suggests that the answer wasn't immediate, not that it didn't happen at all.

Likewise, it doesn't state it did happen. Furthermore, it describes that the intruder rummaged through their belongings before heading to the closet, which seems mighty odd if he knew there was people home.
Also, the article linked did not state much of what you said.

Feud wrote:that he forced himself into an occupied private residence is justification enough to use a gun.

This straight up scares me.
User avatar
Ace Rimmer
level5
level5
Posts: 10803
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: The Multiverse

Postby Ace Rimmer » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:46 pm

Xocrates wrote:
Feud wrote:that he forced himself into an occupied private residence is justification enough to use a gun.

This straight up scares me.

For the sake of argument, given the situation as it was and we are aware of it (it's actually real life history now), and assuming it was your wife/mother/sister, would she be justified in using the gun (also assuming she somehow had one in spite of your clear objections)?
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
User avatar
Xocrates
level5
level5
Posts: 5262
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:34 pm

Postby Xocrates » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:58 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:
Xocrates wrote:
Feud wrote:that he forced himself into an occupied private residence is justification enough to use a gun.

This straight up scares me.

For the sake of argument, given the situation as it was and we are aware of it (it's actually real life history now), and assuming it was your wife/mother/sister, would she be justified in using the gun (also assuming she somehow had one in spite of your clear objections)?

Xocrates wrote:It does not make the gun seem a necessity, but the use of it does not seem inappropriate (although, perhaps, a bit exaggerated)

I had answered that already :P

Let me be perfectly clear here: I do not object to people defending themselves with whatever means available. Although I vastly prefer the "minimum force necessary" approach to the "shoot on sight" approach (which is the part that scared me).

Return to “Introversion Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests