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Ace Rimmer
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:57 pm

What's that?
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
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jelco
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Postby jelco » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:34 pm

For some reason every time I see "Alpha 2" in the PA forums my mind associates it with something different entirely.

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Feud
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Postby Feud » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:39 pm

jelco wrote:New coalition formed in the Netherlands. Several questionable decisions in the deal, but all in all the most concerning: raising the drinking age from 16 to 18. Somehow politicians believe underage drinking problems can be magically solved by changing laws which by definition of the phrase "underage drinking" people don't stick to in the first place. You'd almost forget this is the country that has basically proven the value of softdrug legalisation.


We have a similar problem over here with people who want gun control.
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Postby jelco » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:00 pm

Really? You're going there?

Underage drinking is a problem concerning people getting their hands on stuff which by law they shouldn't be able to get. Gun violence is a problem (partially) resulting from people getting their hands on stuff which by law they are allowed to get.

Gun control might not solve crime coming from illegally 'owned' guns, but that's not the whole story.

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Postby Feud » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:49 pm

jelco wrote:Really? You're going there?

Underage drinking is a problem concerning people getting their hands on stuff which by law they shouldn't be able to get. Gun violence is a problem (partially) resulting from people getting their hands on stuff which by law they are allowed to get.

Gun control might not solve crime coming from illegally 'owned' guns, but that's not the whole story.


Both stem from the same two problems: illegally getting something and illegally using something that was legally purchased.

As you pointed out, changing laws that aren't being obeyed in the first place isn't going to fix the problems that come from those who act irresponsibly.

Edit: It's also getting into finals time, so I might be extra argumentative these days. If I'm trolling, feel free to ignore.
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jelco
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Postby jelco » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:07 pm

Come on, I know you're a better debater than that. You're arguing against a point I didn't make (in fact, just repeating my own phrasing) and are avoiding a point I did make.

jelco wrote:Gun control might not solve crime coming from illegally 'owned' guns, but that's not the whole story.

Gun violence doesn't exclusively come from illegally owned guns. Regardless of problems arising under illegal circumstances, there's lots of change possible with regards to violence committed with legally owned guns.

Besides; in the case of alcohol, raising the limit doesn't make it less available in stores - gun control will make guns less available in stores. No matter the impact of illegal trading, having less guns available out in the open may very well make it more difficult (if only ever-so-slightly) for black market traders to get their hands on it. Of course there's still the 'standard' black market routes you have everywhere, but that's a point I'm making.

Age limits are pretty tricky. People will always want to get around rules, but age limits are far easier to circumvent than general bans. If an average person wants to buy a gun "because he can" I don't see them going to the black market very quickly once he can't, whereas I do see kids aged 16 getting their 18-year-old friends (or parents even) buying the alcohol for them. The threshold is pretty different.

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Postby Feud » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:11 pm

I was probably too broad in my term of gun control, which was a mistake.

Perhaps then a better, closer analogy would be limiting handguns to those over 21.
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Postby Xarlaxas » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:58 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:What's that?


Turkey day! :P
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Postby Feud » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:48 am

Fun fact: don't fall into private hot tubs in Wisconsin. You'll have a bear of a time trying to recover damages.

Scurries back to work on a legal memo.
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Postby jelco » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:14 pm

Feud wrote:Perhaps then a better, closer analogy would be limiting handguns to those over 21.

Ah, well that's a different story. I'd agree that won't solve a thing. :)

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Postby Xocrates » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:23 pm

jelco wrote: whereas I do see kids aged 16 getting their 18-year-old friends (or parents even) buying the alcohol for them.

I'm surprised that the law is enforced strongly enough that they have to ask someone older to buy it for them.
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Postby zjoere » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:05 pm

I saw skyfall yesterday. I really enjoyed and consider it the best daniel craig bond film (so far). Especially the bits that were a bit old fashioned: a fight near dangerous animals, the old aston martin being used again. The new Q isn't that great though imo. And bond did have a bit of a gay moment.
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Postby Feud » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:06 pm

Voted! It was a two hour wait, temp in the 30s, but it was worth it. Glory to Columbia and the Virginia Commonwealth!
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Postby ynbniar » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:41 pm

I'm going for Obama to get just over 300 in the college, & win popular vote by .5%.

:!:
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Postby Mas Tnega » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:01 pm

You kidding? Jill Stein's not that popular.

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