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Xocrates
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Postby Xocrates » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:29 am

Feud wrote:How can something be extreme if it constitutes a plurality? By definition, isn't extreme outside the norm?

Indeed, the question then is what makes you think the US is the norm?

This discussion actually made me think of how bizarre the US is among the international community, mostly because it's perhaps the only one western country that is so unabashedly right-wing, heck, you're probably one of the very few countries in the world where that's the case.

It's dubious that the Republicans would even manage to have significant parliamentary presence in any other country, much less an actual majority.
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Postby Xarlaxas » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:35 am

Xocrates wrote:This discussion actually made me think of how bizarre the US is among the international community, mostly because it's perhaps the only one western country that is so unabashedly right-wing, heck, you're probably one of the very few countries in the world where that's the case.


I dunno, I'd say Iran is pretty Right-wing too!

Also, I was making a semi-joke that the Republican party has been devoured by the Tea Party, which is the extremist nut-job wing. I know that moderate Republicans exist, heck, people from the Bush administration have started looking moderate and I've started wishing for Reagan to rise from the grave and set the party straight, he'd actually raise taxes for one thing!
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Postby Xocrates » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:37 am

Unless you count Iran as a western country, how does that contradict what I said?
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Postby Xarlaxas » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:39 am

It doesn't, I was just pointing out the irony that the countries most similar to the US are places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. filled with exciting puritanical values and disturbingly religious politicians. :P

[Also the country where a centre-left President gets on better with the Conservative PM of Britain than Romney and is still called a "Socialist."]
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Postby Feud » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:15 am

Xocrates wrote:Indeed, the question then is what makes you think the US is the norm?

This discussion actually made me think of how bizarre the US is among the international community, mostly because it's perhaps the only one western country that is so unabashedly right-wing, heck, you're probably one of the very few countries in the world where that's the case.

It's dubious that the Republicans would even manage to have significant parliamentary presence in any other country, much less an actual majority.


Well, 37% of American's make it around 115 million people identifying themselves as Republicans. I'm guessing that's not too far off any of the larger political movements in Europe, if we count them continentally. ;)

As for being right wing, we've had an entirely different development experience. Europe was crowded when we had almost unlimited land. When Europeans felt they had to fight the elites to gain a fair shake, American's just moved to the next horizon.

Our foundation of our national experience, from our revolution to the great immigration tides, is based upon the basic idea of "if you think Europe has got it wrong, come here, cause we do too and we're doing something different."

And what's funny about this is the entire reason the world cares about America's President is because for all our faults, for all the short comings and failures, and a terrible price paid in sorting things out along the way, it's been a remarkable success.

Xarlaxas wrote:It doesn't, I was just pointing out the irony that the countries most similar to the US are places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. filled with exciting puritanical values and disturbingly religious politicians. :P


Heh, whereas many Americans look at the European secular glorification as major facilitators of the terror of the French Revolution, Fascism, and the Soviet Union and think "they just don't get it." ;)

Again, different history. With a few exceptions, we haven't had the religious violence Europe has.
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Postby rus|Mike » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:13 am

When you ask people if they identify themselves as Republicans or Democrats, their answer will depend on their general believes (liberal/conservative for example), not on the current state of the Republican/Democrat party.

You can call yourself a democrat and not identify with current Democratic party at all. To get the picture of if the current Republican party extremist or not, you have to ask the question "Do you approve of Republican party and support their current agenda?", not "Are you republican?".
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Postby zjoere » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:34 am

I took a quiz online and according my results I side the most with Gary Johnson for the presidential election. And I only share 44% of Romney's views so I can hardly support him. We especially disagree on social issues like abortion, gay marriage, death penalty.
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Postby Xocrates » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:04 pm

zjoere wrote:I took a quiz online and according my results I side the most with Gary Johnson for the presidential election. And I only share 44% of Romney's views so I can hardly support him. We especially disagree on social issues like abortion, gay marriage, death penalty.


85% for Obama, with Romney at 36% for me

Bizarrely, it seems I side with Romney on healthcare even though I specifically said I support Obamacare :P
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Postby Feud » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:27 pm

85% for Romney on most stuff, 70% for Obama on others. :P
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Postby rus|Mike » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:02 pm

83% Jill Stein (who's that?), 80% Obama <...> 9% Romney :)

And 4% Republican party. I kinda knew this one :)
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Postby zjoere » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:39 pm

Jill stein is the candidate of the green party if I'm not mistaken
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:15 pm

Hahahaha. I don't even follow politics anymore, but decided to take the quiz:

95% Romney ... econ/social/domestic pol/immig/healthcare/enviro-scie
85% Virgil Good (?) econ/social/healthcare/enviro-scie
70% Gary Johnson econ/enviro/healthcare
56% Obama foreign policy and environment

50% Georgia voters (I live in Atlanta, remember) econo/foreign policy/domestic policy/enviro
45% American domestic policy and environment

95% Rep
58% Libertarian
30% Democratic
13% Green

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Postby Laika » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:37 pm

82% Mitt Romney (on economic, immigration, social, environmental, healthcare, and domestic policy issues)

79% Gary Johnson (on economic, foreign policy, healthcare, and domestic policy issues)

66% Virgil Goode (on economic, environmental, and domestic policy issues)

55% Barack Obama (on social, science, and environmental issues)

36% Jill Stein (on science and domestic policy issues)

86% Republican
60% Libertarian
52% Democratic

link
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Postby Cooper42 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:49 pm

81% Jill Stein
Gary Johnson for Domestic & Immigration issues.

Which is not very surprising.

The US's two party system always seems a tad depressing. Sure, the Green Party in the UK is pretty marginal. But they regularly take seats at the local level and get a seat or two in Parliament.
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Postby zjoere » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:59 pm

Whatever happened to ralph nader? Isn't he participating in the elections anymore? He was ok, I liked him
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