First Annual IV Community Game Awards: Voting Time!

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Shwart!!
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Re: First Annual IV Community Game Awards

Postby Shwart!! » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:52 pm

bert_the_turtle wrote:Mobile (all of DS, PSP, iOS, Android, etc. in one category))
- Best Mobile game for 2$ or less


I'll make nominations when I have the chance, but for now, I'd like to point out a bit of a flaw here... The DS and PSP are designed as gaming platforms, and tend towards larger, big-name releases with decent price tags. iOS, Android, and the like are not designed as gaming devices; gaming on them tends towards both casual gaming and indie developers. It would be hard to favorably compare most iOS or Android releases to the games for the DS or PSP, but at the same time, you're never ever ever going to find a game for DS/PSP that qualifies for the <2$ rule.
The real problem I see is that we're grouping what are basically portable consoles with what are basically fast, fancy PDAs. And while I expect some disagreement on the 'PDA' comment, they're still too dissimilar to have a fair comparison.

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Postby Cooper42 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:08 pm

Jordy... wrote:Frozen Synapse for all categories, for the categories FS doesn't apply.. R.U.S.E.
FS is still in beta. It's a great game, for sure. But if FS can count as a nomination, I'd suggest that so can Minecraft.

In which case, nominations for Minecraft for both best PC game and best game and best game under $20, and best PC game under $20, and the 'classic' version for best freeware game
Whoever you vote for, the government wins.
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Postby Xocrates » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:02 pm

Cooper42 wrote:FS is still in beta. It's a great game, for sure. But if FS can count as a nomination, I'd suggest that so can Minecraft.

In which case, nominations for Minecraft for both best PC game and best game and best game under $20, and best PC game under $20, and the 'classic' version for best freeware game


Bert wrote:About Minecraft: well, the test versions are already released and can be bought. Up to you if you want to count that as a release, and a strategic decision: if you nominate it now, it technically needs to be be judged by what it can offer now, not its future potential, and any awards it wins this year disqualify it from possible, bigger, future annual awards unless it gets ported.

Or in other words, you can nominate Minecraft and Frozen Synapse now, but that would mean the full games won't be able to compete in the future.

Personally I would rather just compare the full releases.
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:15 pm

Shwart!!: true. How about making that three price classes? One full price class for the Gods of War and Pokemons and whatever Epic Citadel may become, one for PSN/DSiWare/Regular Big Phone Titles, one for the tiny timewasters and PSP minis? What would be suitable price cutoffs?
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Re: First Annual IV Community Game Awards

Postby Xocrates » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:37 pm

I would like to lobby for a few rule changes:

1) A game can only run in one year. Meaning that yes, nominate your alphas a betas, but this would remove the chance of the final game to run. This is mostly so that if, say, Minecraft were to be finally released on 2012 it won't be able to run in 2010, 2011, and 2012 so long as it doesn't win.

2) The voting system is probably in need of a change. Right now the people likely to vote are the same people making the nominations, meaning that the poll results will pretty much be identical to the nominations. I would suggest a preferential voting system instead.

3)
bert_the_turtle wrote:- Exception: if a game wins in a broader category, it can't also win in a narrower category. Best overall GOTY can't also be best PC GOTY, best total game can't also be best game for 20$ or less. Polls for the narrower categories will start and end at least one week after the broader categories so you can avoid voting for the broader winner, wasting your vote.

I don't agree with this. Mostly because it makes no sense. It's essentially just giving a pat in the back to the games that came 2nd place.
I would rather provide a winner and a "Runner up" for each category as opposed to disallowing the better game to actually win.
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:36 pm

1) would be fine by me; the rule formulated as it is mainly was for the case of ports, so that, say, Plants vs Zombies can win best XBox game even if it won a previous award. What do the others think? How many shots at awards do games technically qualifying for multiple years deserve? One? Two? Infinite?

2) Sure, if you volunteer to help evaluating the votes. The benefit of polls is that they're automatic and secret. A general problem of the voting phase is that most voters will not have a well formed opinion about all options; game A may win over game B simply because more people played and liked it, even though everyone who played both preferred B. The usual voting dilemmas, plus some. Some more research may be in order.

3) I was very annoyed at the GameTrailer E3 awards when Rage won Best Game first on all the individual platforms, then Best Game of the Show. Duh. Redundant and pointless. Aside from celebrations and stuff, awards should contain information, IMHO. I agree it looks a bit weird.
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Postby Xocrates » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:24 am

bert_the_turtle wrote:1) would be fine by me; the rule formulated as it is mainly was for the case of ports, so that, say, Plants vs Zombies can win best XBox game even if it won a previous award. What do the others think? How many shots at awards do games technically qualifying for multiple years deserve? One? Two? Infinite?

Well, we can make it so that a game can't be nominated for the same category more than one year. That would still allow for ports to compete in multiple years, but wouldn't allow games available but not final to compete several times.


bert_the_turtle wrote:2) Sure, if you volunteer to help evaluating the votes. The benefit of polls is that they're automatic and secret. A general problem of the voting phase is that most voters will not have a well formed opinion about all options; game A may win over game B simply because more people played and liked it, even though everyone who played both preferred B. The usual voting dilemmas, plus some. Some more research may be in order.

Like I said, my problem is that the people making the nominations and the ones voting are likely to be mostly the same. I would prefer if we could just make a straight poll but I don't think that would work. I admit that regardless of voting method the game most people played is the more likely to win though, which is something we should look into.


bert_the_turtle wrote:3) I was very annoyed at the GameTrailer E3 awards when Rage won Best Game first on all the individual platforms, then Best Game of the Show. Duh. Redundant and pointless. Aside from celebrations and stuff, awards should contain information, IMHO. I agree it looks a bit weird.

Then we should try to reduce redundancy, not reward "lesser" games. For instances, have a more than 20$ as well as a less than 20$ instead of a generic best and a less than 20$. Merge the consoles (as there aren't that many exclusives and the discrepancies tend to be fairly minimal between versions of the same game). Alternatively group them by genre instead of platform.

The only redundant category I think we need is for the ultimate GOTY.
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Postby Shwart!! » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:41 am

bert_the_turtle wrote:Shwart!!: true. How about making that three price classes? One full price class for the Gods of War and Pokemons and whatever Epic Citadel may become, one for PSN/DSiWare/Regular Big Phone Titles, one for the tiny timewasters and PSP minis? What would be suitable price cutoffs?


That's certainly an idea... I'm not sure 'price cut-offs' make the most sense, as sometimes a game will have a price that doesn't reflect its professionalism, but I don't have any better ideas. One option would be to have overlap, though; Maybe 0-10, 5-20, 20-???. This still has some of the problem above, but it's open enough to account for most titles, as long as people are sensible about placement.

EDIT: Gah, surprise double-post. Fixed now.

Shwart!!
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Postby DTNC Vicious » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:30 am

Best PC Game - World In Conflict(Wic)

World in Conflict is a thrilling, spectacular strategy game, and an even better multiplayer experience.


Best Board Game- Risk

Amazing strategy game, that never gets boring.

Best Card Game- Kings

Do i really have to say why its awesome :)

Best Game on the Xbox 360 Platform- Without a doubt Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare

Why? It's Voted by Ign, game informer, etc... has one of the best Fps's ever made. Its graphically amazing, its single player was not to short and not to long it was just right, the plot had no hole in it, and the multiplayer was great, constant downloadable content, map packs etc... and a Huge Fan Base.


Best Mobile Game- World War

Well...On my iphone sometimes i have time to fool around, and when i do i play World War it has a huge player base, and its a rts/mmo of ww3 battles and epicness.
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Postby elexis » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:41 am

Isnt this meant to be of 2010?
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Postby Icepick » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:37 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure not a single thing Vicious has mentioned is a 2010 game.
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Postby DTNC Vicious » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:00 am

oops lol :(
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:38 pm

Xocrates: If we adopt the Australian system (instant runoff), games that got played less aren't so much of a problem. If 10 people played A and 6 of them B and all 6 liked B better, B wins over A. Of course, if less than that played B or less of them liked B better (but still a majority), A wins and it may be argued that win is unjustified. But I'd say: failure to attract players is somewhat the games fault, and any attempts made by us to work around that is likely going to create even more pathological situations.

We can do one thing: avoid overlapping categories. It's likely that the cheaper games were played more independent from their quality, so we should keep them away from the 'real' games. So yeah, the suggestion to also have a lower price limit is a good one. I don't know about merging the home consoles; there still is the large divide between the Wii and the other two, the music games are pretty much the only ones published on all three consoles in more or less equal form. And even on the two bigger consoles, exclusives still play a big role: in the PSN/XBLA sector, the best games were the exclusives. There is no reason not to take the combined console votes, strip the exclusives, and celebrate the best HD console games. Well, the re-added redundancy is.

If we go with preferential voting (which I'm in favor of now), should we also drop the 'one nomination per person' restriction? It seems silly, and I feel everyone should be allowed to nominate all the worthy candidates they can think of. I don't think we should skip the nominations; we can sort out issues whether games should and do qualify ahead of time, everyone gets reminded what came out this year (and why it was awesome), and there may be discussion.

Shwart!!: isn't 10$ as max price for the lowest category a bit high? Dunno, practically the only thing I know about the mobile market is that it's weird.

Oh, and I forgot about XBLIG and PSN minis on the PS3. Do enough people play those? Raise you voices! I do like the one or other XBLIG.

On the question what to do with alpha version nominations, more input is needed.
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Postby Xocrates » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:28 am

bert_the_turtle wrote:Xocrates: If we adopt the Australian system (instant runoff), games that got played less aren't so much of a problem. If 10 people played A and 6 of them B and all 6 liked B better, B wins over A. Of course, if less than that played B or less of them liked B better (but still a majority), A wins and it may be argued that win is unjustified. But I'd say: failure to attract players is somewhat the games fault, and any attempts made by us to work around that is likely going to create even more pathological situations.

[nitpick]Technically Preferential vote doesn't work unless there are at least 3 candidates, as otherwise it's indistinct of direct voting. So yeah, that example doesn't really work ;)

A better example would be that if 9 people voted with 4 for A, 3 for B and 2 for C, if folk who voted for C preferred B over A or have only played B can give the victory to B once C is eliminated.

[/nitpick]
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Postby xander » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:49 am

Borda count or gtfo.

Also, I second the "Return of Platforming" nomination. Best trend of the year, in my opinion. The reasons given above are sufficient, but I would like to add Sonic the Hedgehog 4 to the list of quality games released this year in the genre.

xander

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