The GoldFish wrote:
another edit - do you even know who Wendryn is?
some female on this forum that is in one way or another connected with xander.
but what does it have to do with anything ?
i don't "know" anybody on this forum actually
zjoere wrote:the no side affects was aimed at the claim of torig that a condom has an effect on the sensation of sex. there he pill doesn't have any affect i'm aware of.
zjoere wrote:ps: is it just me or does wendryn appear to be obsessed with withness and class ?
white-guilt?
zjoere wrote:frustrated because she can't escape the lower class ?
zjoere wrote:ps: is it just me or does wendryn appear to be obsessed with withness and class ?
white-guilt? frustrated because she can't escape the lower class ?
or am i the only one that notices it
Feud, my reasoning for figuring you were upper to middle class and white and had not experienced much else came from your attitudes. Most people who have seen what life is like in the inner city do not wander around telling people how life really is and that a child (or, in your case, a fetus) is always sacred if the father wants it. I agree that children should be welcomed into a family that can completely support them, but that doesn't happen, and until education and a lot of other services can be improved for lower class, lower income people, you end up with kids in foster care who are never adopted, parents who don't get around to feeding their kids because they are too busy getting their next fix, and kids who leave home at seven because life on the street is far preferable to life at home, for many reasons. You sound like an entitled white man. I've met a lot. I know what they sound like. You fit right in.
I'm trying to get you to look at the fact that you are taking away the rights of women by saying that someone, anyone, else can force her to carry a child to term. You aren't hearing that. You say you've seen everything I have. So be it; if your conscience is happier with forcing a woman to carry an unwanted child than with allowing her to be treated like an adult and make her own decisions, that's not going to change. I will not be splitting more hairs with you in this discussion, but I will allow myself to hope that at some point your blinders come off and you can see from a standpoint other then the prescribed one you have been fed.
Feud wrote: I'm trying to get you to look at the fact that you are saying that a person's legal rights should be based upon thier gender.
It isn't because I feel guilty for not being disabled or for being white; it's because I see things from a different perspective than those who have been in white, "normal" enclaves all of their lives. A significant percentage of my high school class didn't graduate due to pregnancy, drug use, and/or jail time. Feud kept referring to things that upper class people take for granted and few others can, so I tried to give a different view of life.
Feud wrote:I sound like an "entitled white man"? That's tip toeing along the border of making racist, sexist remarks to defend your argument. Has it ever occured to you that people can experiance all of those things and reach a differant opinion then you? You seem happy to file away opposing arguments as some form of racial class based elitism, but has it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe, you aren't the only one who can reach conclusions based upon life experiances?
Feud wrote:I know what you are saying. I'm trying to get you to look at the fact that you are saying that a person's legal rights should be based upon thier gender. For as stupid and sexist you think that sounds, has it occured to you that I feel the same way about your opinion, and that maybe mine is just as valid as yours? If your conscience is happier with creating a double standard of law, where gender is the deciding factor of what rights a person is allowed to hold, that's not going to change.
Stewsburntmonkey wrote:To be honest you're arguments are the same that I see from highly sheltered relatively well off people. These sorts of people tend to have little respect for the troubles of others and have no problem allowing or forcing others to suffer if it keeps their view of the world intact.
Arguments similar to those you have been makeing are what are being used by rich, sheltered, white men to justify torture and indefinite imprisonment of people in the name of defending the US. According to them being tortured is just a consequence of these people's choice to be in a certain place at a certain time (i.e. Afghanistan or Iraq over the past few years).
Stewsburntmonkey wrote:It is not gender based. If men could carry children they should have the same rights to decide what happens inside their bodies. The right in question is whether a person (regardless of gender) can decide to terminate the life of something inside of their body. Do people have the right to kill intestinal parasites? Do people have the right to treat their cancer? The answer is yes. Abortion is just an extension of this right. Certainly there are some differences, but the underlying legal principal is really the same. What happens inside a persons body should be up to that person.
KingAl wrote:zjoere wrote:ps: is it just me or does wendryn appear to be obsessed with withness and class ?
white-guilt? frustrated because she can't escape the lower class ?
or am i the only one that notices it
Perhaps she's a Marxist philospher? And yes, you are
EDIT: Marxist, aerobat, same difference.
KingAl wrote:kentuckyfried wrote:edit
Eloquent as ever.
Feud wrote:The arguments I have been making are the ones used as the basis of modern law, that individuals should have to face the consequnces of their actions, even when they find them disruptive to their daily life, and that gender should not be a qualifying factor in determining equal protection under the law.
Feud wrote:To be honest, I have no idea. But, it shows once again that only those who obey the law in the first place obey the gun laws.
Feud wrote:…that individuals should have to face the consequnces of their actions, even when they find them disruptive to their daily life...
Feud wrote: I agree, what happens inside a person's body should be up to them, but I feel the by the time pregnancy occurs they have already made that choice.
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