Procedural Genrated Universe

The place to hang out and talk about totally anything general.
Darksun
level5
level5
Posts: 6461
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 7:08 pm
Location: 127.0.0.1

Postby Darksun » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:14 pm

KingAl wrote:In my personal, and highly irrationally biased, opinion, if you are capable of learning Java straight off the bat, then you might as well just learn C++ - which is ruled by similar concepts, allows more low level tweaking and most important of all is an industry standard - you don't see any major titles coded in java.


Well, I think Java is easier to learn since you can grasp the fundamentals of OO programming without getting bogged down in the low level stuff. And while C/C++ is the industry standard for PC programming, Java is important in other markets, such as mobile phones and embedded systems
R.Reagan
level1
level1
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:09 pm

Postby R.Reagan » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:36 pm

what did IV use to create defcon?
Montyphy
level5
level5
Posts: 6747
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:28 pm
Location: Bristol, England

Postby Montyphy » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:49 pm

R.Reagan wrote:what did IV use to create defcon?


They used Chris, who wrote Defcon in 42 lines of brainstab (41 of which were comments).

BTW, you really shouldn't base what language you learn or use solely upon what someone else used/uses. You should weigh up the pros and cons of a language based on your circumstances and needs.
Last edited by Montyphy on Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Uplink help: Check out the Guide or FAQ.
Latest Uplink patch is v1.55.
User avatar
xander
level5
level5
Posts: 16869
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Highland, CA, USA
Contact:

Postby xander » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:05 pm

Montyphy wrote:
R.Reagan wrote:what did IV use to create defcon?


They used Chris, who wrote Defcon in 42 lines of brainstab (41 of which were comments).

Speaking of which, does anyone here speak or read Swahili? I am trying to read the comments...

xander
User avatar
BrianBlessed
level4
level4
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:33 pm

Postby BrianBlessed » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:37 pm

Just watch the Lion King, that's all the Swahili you need to know.
Stewsburntmonkey
level5
level5
Posts: 11553
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:44 pm
Location: Nashville, TN
Contact:

Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:00 pm

Montyphy wrote:
R.Reagan wrote:what did IV use to create defcon?


They used Chris, who wrote Defcon in 42 lines of brainstab (41 of which were comments).

BTW, you really shouldn't base what language you learn or use solely upon what someone else used/uses. You should weigh up the pros and cons of a language based on your circumstances and needs.


Although it is generally advisable to go with a language many other people in the same area use as it will have a large selection of libraries specific to the given task than a less used language will. For example Perl has a lot more web development libraries than C++ does because more web developers use Perl than C++. On the other hand there are more graphics libraries for C++ than for Perl because more games and other graphics applications are written in C++ than in Perl.
Last edited by Stewsburntmonkey on Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
R.Reagan
level1
level1
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:09 pm

Postby R.Reagan » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:26 pm

ok thanks, i think i give c++ a try
User avatar
prophile
level5
level5
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Southampton, UK
Contact:

Postby prophile » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:04 pm

If you're learning a programming language for the first time, start off with something very high level. My first language was AppleScript. It'll teach you how programming all works; your second step is something a little more complicated but still easy to use, something like PHP. Once you're fluent in something middle-level like that you can learn C++, C, and assembler, in that order.
Stewsburntmonkey
level5
level5
Posts: 11553
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:44 pm
Location: Nashville, TN
Contact:

Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:19 pm

prophile wrote:If you're learning a programming language for the first time, start off with something very high level. My first language was AppleScript. It'll teach you how programming all works; your second step is something a little more complicated but still easy to use, something like PHP. Once you're fluent in something middle-level like that you can learn C++, C, and assembler, in that order.


I don't think all that is necessary. AppleScript isn't really sufficiently like anything else to make it work learning unless you need it. If you want to start high level something like Python or Java would be better as they are similar to a lot of other languages (like C++). Also C would be easier to learn than C++. C is a much simpler language, and while low level, is pretty easy to learn. The definitive book on C, Kernighan and Richie's "The C Programming Language" is all of 200 pages, which most C++ books are several times that. There is very little point learning assembly at this point for most people.
User avatar
prophile
level5
level5
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Southampton, UK
Contact:

Postby prophile » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:24 pm

I have to disagree over the C/C++ point. I find that the abstractions provided by libstdc++ make life one hell of a lot easier for someone new. Look at string handling specifically: when I tried to learn C the first time, strcpy() and co just went straight over my head. Using std::string is much simpler, and once you start understanding how it all works then you can move on to C.
User avatar
Testrie
level3
level3
Posts: 486
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:02 pm
Location: CA, United States
Contact:

Postby Testrie » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:03 pm

prophile wrote:I have to disagree over the C/C++ point. I find that the abstractions provided by libstdc++ make life one hell of a lot easier for someone new. Look at string handling specifically: when I tried to learn C the first time, strcpy() and co just went straight over my head. Using std::string is much simpler, and once you start understanding how it all works then you can move on to C.


sp wjat does strcpy() do again?

elyea
Stewsburntmonkey
level5
level5
Posts: 11553
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:44 pm
Location: Nashville, TN
Contact:

Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:07 pm

prophile wrote:I have to disagree over the C/C++ point. I find that the abstractions provided by libstdc++ make life one hell of a lot easier for someone new. Look at string handling specifically: when I tried to learn C the first time, strcpy() and co just went straight over my head. Using std::string is much simpler, and once you start understanding how it all works then you can move on to C.


Oh, there are certainly some things that are easier in C++ (objects can be very nice). However, there is a whole lot that is far more difficult, especially if you get into other libraries. Even with strings you have all sorts of different string libraries, each with their own features and functions. I also wonder how strcpy() is confusing while C++ isn't. I'm mean all you are doing is copying a string using pointers. Understanding pointers is key to both C and C++.

My main reason for suggesting learning C before C++ is that the vast majority of most people's needs in C++ are covered in C. If you have a good grasp of C (which is pretty easy to get) you can pickup those features of C++ you need without much problem. In fact almost all books I have seen on C++ start off with a relatively in depth C tutorial before even touching C++. For example the first 250 pages of C++, The Complete Reference are all about C.
User avatar
KingAl
level5
level5
Posts: 4138
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:42 am

Postby KingAl » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:25 am

In my arrogant opinion, if you learn C before C++, it should be to learn how to program, rather than as a step up to learn the language. Otherwise, there are some common programming techniques in C that are really dodgy in the context of C++ - overuse of macros and casts, for example. I'd suggest learning the concepts behind general program design etc. in another language entirely and then going straight to C++, bypassing C. It's true that there are many C++ tutorials which essentially teach C first, but this approach has been criticized by many prominent figures in the C++ community (admittedly, an appeal to authority, but they should know what they are talking about).
Stewsburntmonkey
level5
level5
Posts: 11553
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:44 pm
Location: Nashville, TN
Contact:

Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:38 pm

KingAl wrote:In my arrogant opinion, if you learn C before C++, it should be to learn how to program, rather than as a step up to learn the language. Otherwise, there are some common programming techniques in C that are really dodgy in the context of C++ - overuse of macros and casts, for example. I'd suggest learning the concepts behind general program design etc. in another language entirely and then going straight to C++, bypassing C. It's true that there are many C++ tutorials which essentially teach C first, but this approach has been criticized by many prominent figures in the C++ community (admittedly, an appeal to authority, but they should know what they are talking about).


I don't think it is at all hard to stop using casts and macros so often when you switch to C++. I actually think learning these sorts of things gives you a better idea why some features of C++ were implemented. The real bottom line however is that C is largely a subset of C++ so you are going to learn it either way. The only difference is whether you know you are learning it or not. I think it makes more sense to explicitly learn what is C and what is just C++. This way you can program in C if you need to and can look at C code without issue.
R.Reagan
level1
level1
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:09 pm

Postby R.Reagan » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:30 pm

cool, many thanks! next days i will buy me such a book and practice :D
i will try c first, downloaded dev-c++ after i realised that i have to have something to write in, very confusing all
do you have a good learning-book for c in mind? what did you use?

Return to “Introversion Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests