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trickfred
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Postby trickfred » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:17 pm

ShepFan wrote:
trickfred wrote:
xander wrote:
alphager wrote:Get a pc :-P

Hrm... a PC to play IV games. Costs about $750 (at minimum to get a decently specced machine to play Darwinia and Defcon), plus a week or two to get the machine. Oh, plus $20 to get new versions of Uplink and Darwinia. This, compared to waiting another couple of months (though less wait is better!), and paying $20. Choices... choices... choices... I'm not sure what to do! :roll:

xander


Try around $300 USD or less.

I admit, it's a little excessive just for games if you already own a Mac, but people pay more than that for their Xboxen of Circles.

And think of the other software you could run on it too.

That's $300 for a closeout, refurbished unit. I would call EMachines an off-brand, but let's just agree it's no Dell. In any case, add another couple hundred for a cheap LCD. And upgrade the graphics card for any serious gaming, there's another hundred or two (or way more!). Kind of a lot for yesterday's technology, IMHO.


You're being picky. It'll play Darwinia and Defcon, and that's what xander stated his theoretical machine needed to do. And cheaper than $750.

I was merely making the point that $750 was pretty much way more than he needed to spend to get a Darwinia/Defcon capable machine.
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Postby NeoThermic » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:20 pm

Well, you could always be smart and get a core duo machine for about £1,300, which would be far better and cheaper than a Mac of the same spec...

http://www.neothermic.com/?t=109

(plus the prices there are now about a month old; I think the machine's price there could be some £100 cheaper today)

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Postby ShepFan » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:41 pm

NeoThermic wrote:Well, you could always be smart and get a core duo machine for about £1,300, which would be far better and cheaper than a Mac of the same spec...

http://www.neothermic.com/?t=109

(plus the prices there are now about a month old; I think the machine's price there could be some £100 cheaper today)

NeoThermic

OK, let's check it out. Hmmm. No case, no keyboard, no mouse, no floppy or optical drive, (I don't think anyone makes a "Mac of the same spec!") only a 17" LCD, and since it's home-built, no tech support. No thanks! Yesterday I took my buddy's iMac G5 to the Apple Store, and walked out 15 minutes later with a new power supply installed. Plus I get all the security superiority of OS X, the bundled, integrated software, and more.

Lets see, even missing all that stuff, £1,300 is $2484 today. That'll buy a lot more of a Mac, but none of the major players is yet shipping the Core 2 Duo machine (Dell is listing September shipment as of today), so a real comparison can't be made. For another $15 you can get a dual dual (Yes, 4 cores) Xeon 5100 ("Woodcrest") Mac Pro at 2.66GHz, but that's not a fair comparison. That system beats the home-built (except maybe disc storage--I don't know some of the model #s) and throws in USB, 1394, and a lot of other things. I'd like to see someone spec a home-built like a Mac Pro; I'd be curious what it costs. As the article I mentioned before points out, Dell sells one for about $900 more than the Mac.

-ShepFan
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Postby ShepFan » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:44 pm

trickfred wrote:
ShepFan wrote:
trickfred wrote:
xander wrote:
alphager wrote:Get a pc :-P

Hrm... a PC to play IV games. Costs about $750 (at minimum to get a decently specced machine to play Darwinia and Defcon), plus a week or two to get the machine. Oh, plus $20 to get new versions of Uplink and Darwinia. This, compared to waiting another couple of months (though less wait is better!), and paying $20. Choices... choices... choices... I'm not sure what to do! :roll:

xander


Try around $300 USD or less.

I admit, it's a little excessive just for games if you already own a Mac, but people pay more than that for their Xboxen of Circles.

And think of the other software you could run on it too.

That's $300 for a closeout, refurbished unit. I would call EMachines an off-brand, but let's just agree it's no Dell. In any case, add another couple hundred for a cheap LCD. And upgrade the graphics card for any serious gaming, there's another hundred or two (or way more!). Kind of a lot for yesterday's technology, IMHO.


You're being picky. It'll play Darwinia and Defcon, and that's what xander stated his theoretical machine needed to do. And cheaper than $750.

I was merely making the point that $750 was pretty much way more than he needed to spend to get a Darwinia/Defcon capable machine.

Sure, I agree $750 will get you a basic machine. But you corrected xander and said $300, without mentioning all the gotchas. Is that where the "trick" in trickfred comes from? :)

-ShepFan
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Postby xander » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:51 pm

trickfred wrote:And think of the other software you could run on it too.

I'm sorry, but I feel I need to come back to this. What other software? I can currently run everything I want or need, except for the newest, Defcon. Defcon will be out in another few months for the Mac. I don't really mind the wait. What other software am I going to run?

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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:56 pm

ShepFan wrote:That'll buy a lot more of a Mac, but none of the major players is yet shipping the Core 2 Duo machine (Dell is listing September shipment as of today), so a real comparison can't be made.


Well the Mac Pro is a Core 2 machine and it is shipping now.

Also the Intel Macs can boot Windows so you don't even have to wait for the port. :)
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Postby NeoThermic » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:59 pm

ShepFan wrote:OK, let's check it out. Hmmm. No case, no keyboard, no mouse, no floppy or optical drive, (I don't think anyone makes a "Mac of the same spec!") only a 17" LCD


I mentioned those lacking items in my post; I've already got them and there's no point buying new ones. A 17in TFT is as good as you really want. If you feel like a 19" TFT, add £20. Do not forget that ATX means that you'll be able to keep your case between each build, unlike a Mac. I've got a case that cost me £110, there's no way in hell would I get a new case with a new build :)


ShepFan wrote:since it's home-built, no tech support.


Every compoment comes with a minimum of one year's warrenty. The TFT comes with three. If you're self building, that is all you need. There's enough FAQ's and people out there who can help you troubleshoot problems if you don't know enough to fix it yourself.


ShepFan wrote:That system beats the home-built (except maybe disc storage--I don't know some of the model #s) and throws in USB, 1394, and a lot of other things.


You say that like the thing totally lacks any USB, firewire, etc. I'll point out that the board mentioned has 8 USB ports and Gigabit lan, and has headers for 4 USB ports and 2 firewire ports if your case has conections for them.

ShepFan wrote:I'd like to see someone spec a home-built like a Mac Pro; I'd be curious what it costs. As the article I mentioned before points out, Dell sells one for about $900 more than the Mac.


Put down the exact spec of the Mac Pro and I'll wager I can spec it cheaper.

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Postby Rkiver » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:05 pm

Ah yes, the whole "Mac is more secure". The cry of someone who thinks all pcs are windows machines.

Erm no. Not really. Sure there are less viruses, but that doesn't make the Mac a better machine. What makes a better machine? Easily upgradable, more compatability with more programs (more games), and reduced costs. For what you pay for your mac I can build a machine that trounces it.

Ooooh no tech support. Erm, hello, I am my own tech support, and all the components have warrenties. Your whole arguement falls apart.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:05 pm

Mac Pro ($2500):
* Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon “Woodcrest” (Core2)
* 1GB (2 x 512MB)
* 250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB (single-link DVI/dual-link DVI)
* One 16x SuperDrive
* Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English

You'd also have to take into account the ridiculously well designed and constructed case and system boards (4 hard drive bays and upto 16GB RAM).


Rkiver wrote:Erm no. Not really. Sure there are less viruses, but that doesn't make the Mac a better machine. What makes a better machine? Easily upgradable, more compatability with more programs (more games), and reduced costs. For what you pay for your mac I can build a machine that trounces it.


What makes a computer is really a function of the customer. For a lot of graphics and media people the Mac is far more compatible with their software than Windows (and now that Macs can run Windows, Macs are the most compatible systems out there). Some people want a higher quality system (one that requires little to no fiddling to keep it working) which Macs can provide since they keep a lock on both the hardware and software. Many people also don't want to (or can't) deal with computer issues themselves, so the Apple support system can be a major plus.
Last edited by Stewsburntmonkey on Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby trickfred » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:05 pm

ShepFan wrote:Sure, I agree $750 will get you a basic machine. But you corrected xander and said $300, without mentioning all the gotchas. Is that where the "trick" in trickfred comes from? :)

-ShepFan


Yes, that's it. I'm trying to 'trick' xander into buying a PC, and paying more than he bargained for.

Watch out xander! :roll:

Tack on $150 for a 15" lcd or crt, keyboard, mouse - or even less for a kvm switch (if Mac stuff is compatible). Still much less than $750 and Darwinia/Defcon capable.

Have you finished trying to troll my off-hand comment to shreds now?

Edit: (Didn't see this right away, don't feel the need to double post)

xander wrote:
trickfred wrote:And think of the other software you could run on it too.

I'm sorry, but I feel I need to come back to this. What other software? I can currently run everything I want or need, except for the newest, Defcon. Defcon will be out in another few months for the Mac. I don't really mind the wait. What other software am I going to run?

xander


Well, there's um... a bazillion other games that aren't out for the Mac... Steam... I could hook you up with some phat loots in Guild Wars... Hmm...

Um...

*scratches head, looks at software shelf*

...

...

*runs*
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Postby Babylon5 » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:30 pm

Somehow, Stews fails quoting.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:41 pm

Babylon5 wrote:Somehow, Stews fails quoting.


Heh, I tend to forget that the quote tag requires quotes (ironicly). :)
Last edited by Stewsburntmonkey on Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby xander » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:42 pm

trickfred wrote:Well, there's um... a bazillion other games that aren't out for the Mac... Steam... I could hook you up with some phat loots in Guild Wars... Hmm...

Um...

*scratches head, looks at software shelf*

...

...

*runs*

So... games? I play Tetris, Escape Velocity, and IV's games on my computer. That's all I want on my computer. I have a console for games. The games for which a computer is better (i.e. FPSes, RTSes) are not the kind of game that I generally play. If I played more games, I would probably get a PC for gaming. For what I like to do, I prefer a Mac.

Also, NeoThermic: most Mac users seem keep their machines for five or six years (this is anecdotal, by the way, based upon what I see in coffee shops, and in other public places -- I could be way off, I suppose) before they think about replacement. That comes out to an investment of $600 a year (more or less) for the computer (this includes $130 every 18 months or so for OS upgrades, with most people don't bother with). How does that compare to your home built? How often do you upgrade?

xander
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:44 pm

xander wrote:Also, NeoThermic: most Mac users seem keep their machines for five or six years (this is anecdotal, by the way, based upon what I see in coffee shops, and in other public places -- I could be way off, I suppose) before they think about replacement.


That's actually true. The install base (systems currently in use) of Macs is significantly higher than the Mac market share, indicating that Mac users tend to keep their systems longer than PC users.
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Postby Babylon5 » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:51 pm

Stewsburntmonkey wrote:
Babylon5 wrote:Somehow, Stews fails quoting.


Heh, I tend to forget that the quote tag requires quotes (ironicly). :)


:lol: I assume the edit for this post was the quotes?
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