Advanced Options for a Naval Fleet

Ideas for expansions and improvements to Defcon

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Admiral Yoshi
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Advanced Options for a Naval Fleet

Postby Admiral Yoshi » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:00 am

In DEFCON...many players play the 6 fleet formation. Some play 4. Experienced Players sometimes do 3 and maybe 2. Only experts and elites do 1. So...to add all this:

There should be an advanced option for the following:

- Fleet formation
- An option to select a group of ships to guard, attack, or hold the line
- Choosing multiple units at the same time


For the fleet formation:

Why the fleet formation options? So that you can group the ships in any formation you can in any situations. In DEFCON's 5 and 4, you can only have 1 type of formation and if you chose 6 fleet formations, then you can't change the formations either way. So...for any naval combat or naval patrol, I'm suggesting a fleet formation options. Select a group of ships (doesn't matter if they're already grouped), and you can line them up, or make a triangle formation, a anti-aircraft formation, etc.


An option to select a group of ships to guard, attack, or hold the line:

It will be completely painstaking to actually constantly select one ship just to constantly move around while you're being either under attack by nukes or ships or fighters. So just put them in guard mode in an area and they will constantly guard in that particular area. Simple.


To choose multiple units at the same time:

Again with the painstaking effort to constantly click a unit and point at them at whatever just for them to get destroyed later on. So just to highlight an area with units (not enemy units) and click on the location and they will move at once. There is no need for you to painstakinly click a unit one by one. That is stupid!



So here are the ideas for improvemetns. DEFCON is a great RTS (real time strategy) game, but it needs more options and more in-depth strategy than just painstakingly choosing units.
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xander
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Postby xander » Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:27 pm

Yoshi, please don't take this personally, but I've got to get this off my chest. It seems to me that every time someone new discovers Defcon, they go through a predictable series of attitudes. First, there is the newbie. Newbies are just learning the game, getting their asses kicked, and getting the hang of playing. Their posts on this board tend to be of the form "Jesus Motherfucking H. Christ on a pogo stick! I suck at this game! How do I get better!?"

Newbies get the standard response: read the tactical forums, watch replays.

Once newbies get a little better, they get to where you are, Yoshi. They think that they understand what is going on, and think that they know how to improve the game. They propose land units. Or waypoints. Or more flexible formations of ships. Or satellites. Or more kinds of planes. These people clearly don't get how deep the game actually is, or how it is balanced, or why it even works. And they think that their ideas for modifying the game are unique, and that non one else has ever thought of them before. Their posts are like the one above. These people are n00bs.

I will get to the response to that kind of person below.

Finally, these people play more, and begin to understand how the game actually works (note: there was a time when I felt pretty good about how Defcon worked, but that was years ago---I haven't played in such a long time, and I am completely unaware of how tactics have changed, and would probably get my ass kicked at this point in time). They begin to discuss tournament play and more advanced tactics. They leave their n00bishness, and become veterans.

-----

Okay, so what about your post, Yoshi?

First off, formations are part of the balance of the game. If you choose 6 ship formations, you don't have to micromanage as much (in fact, you don't even get the option to micromanage). This makes playing the game easier. However, because you cannot micromanage, you sacrifice flexibility. Large fleets are easy to manage, but inflexible. On the other hand, small fleets require that you micromanage quite a bit, but they give you a huge amount of flexibility. At the beginning of the game, you have to decide how you are going to play. Are you going to micromanage or not? You don't get to change your mind later on. Selecting multiple units at the same time is the same problem. Large formations let you do this, but you sacrifice flexibility. If you want to select multiple units at the same time, use formations.

As to issuing orders, why do you need to do that? The game depends upon you paying attention to what is going on around you. Part of playing the game is concentration, and spreading your focus across the map to keep track of all of your units. Want a unit to hold the line? Don't give it additional orders. Want it to attack? Order it to move forward. Want a unit to guard another unit? Either put them in a formation in the first place, or order them to move together (note: this requires some micro if the units move at different speeds). Again, this is part of the balance and skill of the game.

Basically, I get the impression that you have learned to play the game well enough to beat the AI, and win a few games, but that you really do not yet understand how the game works, or why it works. You do not understand the tao of Defcon.

xander
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Postby 47 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:10 pm

LOL xsnder... you just owned the kid.. heheheeh..

i agree with xander.. you have won few games Yoshi (ya ya you beat me but you lost many more games in tourney if i am not wrong) and yo think that you know a lot.. but that is how everyone learned.. the thing is simple

if you cant micro stop playing.. the key to any naval victory in defcon is micro... if you can do that better then others then you can win. otherwise you can just prey to win...

you have not gone against the likes of Senator, rus mike, Ace, Why, BattleTron, MOR (in his best form)... these guys do really good micro and some of them used to count enemy ships that they had destroyed.. so good luck with your ideas matee..
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Postby Groeteschele » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:58 pm

Please, be kind to Yoshi (I mean it honestly), he is unique material for my psychological researches. All other noobs perceive the game in strategic level (they think it's only strategic game, that's why they demand speed), but Yoshi is different due to his young age, he perceives the game in tactical level and has week awareness of game's strategic dimension so far. This is uniqe attitude of player who can't realize strategic relations to rules beyond the game.
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Postby Feud » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:29 pm

xander wrote:(note: there was a time when I felt pretty good about how Defcon worked, but that was years ago---I haven't played in such a long time, and I am completely unaware of how tactics have changed, and would probably get my ass kicked at this point in time).


I can empathize with that. Lately I've taken a "GET OFFA MAH LAWN" approach, remembering my glory days and muttering to myself about the wayward youth.
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Postby xander » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:10 am

Feud wrote:
xander wrote:(note: there was a time when I felt pretty good about how Defcon worked, but that was years ago---I haven't played in such a long time, and I am completely unaware of how tactics have changed, and would probably get my ass kicked at this point in time).


I can empathize with that. Lately I've taken a "GET OFFA MAH LAWN" approach, remembering my glory days and muttering to myself about the wayward youth.

I remember playing a game with bert shortly after Defcon was released. It was possible to secretly enable team switching, and control your opponent's units. bert was attempting to demonstrate how powerful this could be by controlling my units during the game. I still pwn'd him. That was funny.

xander
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Admiral Yoshi
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Postby Admiral Yoshi » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:09 am

So you're good in DEFCON, xander?
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Postby Nightwatch » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:53 am

No, he sucks.

And he may put me down in the "want more PLAINSS!!11!!" category as well.

But what do i know, iam just a noob.
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Postby xander » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:35 pm

Admiral Yoshi wrote:So you're good in DEFCON, xander?

You clearly didn't read my post very carefully, because if you had, you would know the answer to that question. There was a time when I was okay. I won about as many games as I lost. But I haven't played against a real person in three or four years, and even the AI is sometimes challenging for me at this point (on the rare occasions when I decide to play a game). Of course, how "good" one is at playing Defcon is slightly tangential to the point of how well one understands the game.

I understand the game of pool pretty well. I know how the balls will react if hit at a certain angle. I know what backspin on the cue ball will do as the ball travels across the table and imparts its kinetic energy to other balls. I know how to get the cue ball to hop over other balls, or swerve around them. In theory, anyway. When it comes to actually applying motion to the cue ball, I'm completely rubbish at pool. I may know what I am supposed to do in a given situation, but actually doing it is another matter. I feel much the same about Defcon. I know the theory of micromanaging fleets of individual ships, planes, and nukes, but I am easily distracted and, in practice, quite rubbish at Defcon.

xander
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Postby ChemicalRascal » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:46 am

That said, you know what they say; knowing is half the battle. You won't find many pool crack-shots who don't understand the theory, methinks.

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