The Big Red Button: an idea that doesn't suck

Ideas for expansions and improvements to Defcon

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The Big Red Button: an idea that doesn't suck

Postby Navigator » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:39 am

EDIT: This thread was started because I really wanted to find a way to include the Big Red Button. It's the most iconic image of nuclear warfare, and would be cool to see in the game in some form. I think everyone could probably agree on that, but so far, previous suggestions for implementation have left a bitter taste in everyone's mouth, mine included. Even the suggestion I first posed in this thread wasn't well received, and frankly, I'm not quite sure I liked it too much myself. However, I later thought of a way to include it that has zero affect on gameplay. I also don't recall seeing it suggested before. That suggestion is outlined later in the thread, in this post here: http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon/viewtopic.php?p=57137#57137 Naturally, IV should prioritize "game fluff" suggestions lower than bug fixes and such, but I think I've found the one Big Red Button suggestion that everyone won't immediately hate.


-----Original Post Below-----

Oh, I know what you all must have thought as soon as you saw the thread title.

Another Big Red Button suggestion? Ugh.

This one is a bit different from what's been suggested before though. I actually did go through every page of the Think Tank and read every existing thread that suggested a Big Red Button to make sure that my implementation of the idea wasn't exactly the same as a previous suggestion that had already been shot down.


So far, Big Red Button suggestions have fallen into these two basic categories:

1. Plan out your attack, and hit the Big Red Button to put it into action.
This one is bad because it lets you take things easy and just let your attack plan take over everything. You don't have to make sure you pay enough attention to make your bombers turn toward their target if you've launched them 90° off their target for a beam attack. You don't have to worry about trying to time your silo launches in the heat of battle to get those nukes raining down on your enemy in clusters. You've planned out everything in advance, and can just sit back and relax. This is just all around a bad idea.

2. Hit the button and the AI makes all the decisions.
Bombers are targeted on their own, subs move into striking range by themselves, and silos launch on priority targets without your input. This is even worse than #1.


Here's my Big Red Button idea:

The Big Red Button would reside in the menu on the bottom right. Clicking it brings up a menu asking if you really want to push it. I suppose it could even be graphical, requiring you to click on a key or a toggle (to turn the key and flip the toggle), and then click the button to launch.

What makes this different from previous ideas is that when you launch, all silos immediately start counting down to launch mode, and all nukes from those silos are randomly targeted among the enemy cities and stationary installations that you have intel on. There is absolutely no target preference. Seattle might randomly have five nukes sent its way even though it might be devoid of life, while New York could have a full population and have one nuke sent to it. All of the enemy silos might be destroyed, but a single radar might have multiple warheads strike it even though that's unnecessary.

Seems pretty worthless then, right? But that's not all. As soon as you push the button, all players are given a notice that "[Player] has pushed the button". Everyone knows that you've launched an all-out strike before your silos have even fully switched to launch mode and sent nukes on their way. Also, once you've pushed the button, you can't change your mind and switch back to defense in the middle of launching.

So why does the game need this then? Well, it doesn't. It's just something that adds to the flavor and fun of the game. The only time anyone would want to use this is when they've obliterated their enemy, and don't need the points from silo strikes. Beating your opponent to such a degree that you could push the button and still win would make for bragging rights and nothing more. However, you'd need at least 45 out of your allotted 60 silo nukes left to be able to use this feature. There's not much to brag about if you've already launched 59 well-coordinated nuke strikes, and then push the button to launch the last nuke.


Pros:
It would be a fun addition to the game. It also doesn't do any effective and skillful micromanaging for you. It's just a random spew of nukes that says to the world "I don't even need the points anymore".

Cons:
You'd probably see a lot of newbs push the button as soon as Defcon 1 hit, and they'd be easy pickings. Of course, if they were going to push the button, they probably would have manually launched at Defcon 1 anyway. The difference is that by pushing the button, their random spew does a worse job than if they had just selected targets themselves.


Anyway, I'm posting this because I really like the idea of the Big Red Button, and this seems like the only way to save it. This version of the idea offers absolutely no advantage to the player. It does target for you, and I know many people hate ideas that do any bit of micromamanging for you, but it'd be completely random. I don't know what you all will think of this version of it, but I suppose if even this is shot down, then we can all consider the idea well and truly dead.

Hope I don't get flamed too much. :D
Last edited by Navigator on Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby torig » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:48 am

I feel a bit bad for coming "in" first, but I'll admit I don't like the idea.

As you say yourself, there isn't a real "pro/con" ; it's for kicks only.
As such, I'd say, let the dev work on more urgent stuff, that ISN'T for kicks only. Numerous bugfixes, the authkey issue (as I'm impacted by it myself), better AI, a ranking system and many more come to mind.

Also, you'd be surprised what just 3-4 hidden carriers could do to your massive launch, and in taking back the lead in a game.

The argument that you could automatically launch all your nukes, randomly, without needing the points is moot. If you don't need the points and want to display it that badly, you could nuke the ocean all out with your silos. Why you would do so (for bragging rights?) is up to you, of course.

It sucks that you did research and everything, but the big red button idea was probably better off when it wasn't a zombie ;)
Sorry navigator, but if it consoles you, it's just 1 opinion out of many.
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Postby Navigator » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:55 am

I agree that IV should work on more pressing issues first, of course.

I just love the idea of a Big Red Button, and this was the only way I could think of to include it without it impacting gameplay. Well, it could backfire horribly on the user, of course, but there are so many things in this game that can backfire. :wink:
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Postby torq » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:04 am

I don't like the idea either.
First - when I open my silos now, nobody knows about it before the first nuke goes out. Some may call me crazy but I prefer to keep them in nukes launch mode for some time before I'd actually launch. At some point, when I am relatively sure that no nukes are expected. I just switch them to nukes launch mode and wait for a chance. Sometimes 30-40 game minutes pass before I actually launch my first nuke.
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Postby xyzyxx » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:25 pm

I like the idea, but, like so many others suggested, it should only be an option. Also, it's very unlikely that an idea like this will get put into action.
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Postby torig » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:26 pm

xyzyxx wrote:I like the idea, but, like so many others suggested, it should only be an option. Also, it's very unlikely that an idea like this will get put into action.


Like with many other ideas though : if it is an option, I'd have no issue with it being implemented. If that makes some others happy, why not ;)
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Postby Navigator » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:09 pm

Well, I think it would work even if the Big Red Button were available in every game, simply because you're never forced to use it, and using it gives no advantage whatsoever. It doesn't even change the dynamic of the game, as you wouldn't lose the ability to manually target your silos; and even without the Big Red Button, you could still fire your nukes haphazardly, albeit it would be done manually. You'd have to either be very foolish to use it, or very confident that a win was assured for you no matter what.

However, I know that inclusion of this as a feature at any point by IV is a long shot at best.


Now... on to my next idea. Nuke-targeting spy planes that also shoot out little mini spy satellites!


Edited for better readability.
Last edited by Navigator on Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby shinygerbil » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:11 pm

Navigator wrote:Now... on to my next idea. I say we turn it into Command and Conquer!!


THIS IS PURELY A JOKE. I don't mean it offensively :P It does, however, roughly sum up my feelings ;)
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Postby Navigator » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:19 pm

I've never even played C&C, actually, so I have no idea what those games are like. The spy plane addition was a joke on my part, as I don't want to see any units added to the core game, unless by mods, and the ability to add units that way doesn't exist yet.

EDIT: I do understand why the idea is disliked by many people though. Defcon is a strategy game, and a button that just fires off your silo nukes at random targets would seem to have no place in it. I can even agree with that myself, but I also just love the Big Red Button as an iconic image of nuclear warfare, and I think it would be cool to see it included in the game in some form. Hell, change the "Ready" button in the lobby into a Big Red Button that does nothing but start the game, and I'd smile. Although, of course, that should be the last thing on IV's list, after all bugs have been patched and all essential features have been added.

DOUBLE EDIT: Actually, I think I like that idea even better. A Big Red Button in the lobby room to signal when you're ready would be awesome. It sort of reminds me of the lists on the main menu that include information about nuke yields and such. Totally unnecessary, but still neat to see.
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Postby xyzyxx » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:53 pm

Hell, change the "Ready" button in the lobby into a Big Red Button that does nothing but start the game, and I'd smile.
Nice idea!
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Postby Kuth » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:06 pm

Why not make the big red button detonate all the nukes in their silos and locations across the map?

What? No saying it can't be a suicide button :D
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Postby torq » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:13 pm

Guys, it's ok I suppose to talk about it, but are you aware of the fact that real missiles are launched by inserting and turning the launch key and not by pressing the BIG RED BUTTON?

Just thought you should know, sorry :lol:

Actually you need two keys in order to launch.
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Postby LordSturm » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:17 pm

FFS you insane people!

Make a BIG RED BUTTON, and map said button to BUTTON FOUR ( 4 / $ ) on the ALPHANUMERIC KEYSTIP! )

Now! simply press 1, and plan out your attack ( be sure to be in defcon 1 first. )

NOW SLAP THAT RED BUTTON SILLY! ( If that isn't good enough, well too bad. )
"Surely you didn't mean to press that button just then did you?"
"No, nor will i disarm the nukes."
"Oh well, I will have my Fighters shoot them down."
"Sure you will."
"Oh NOES, ITS BEEN PATCHED!!!"
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Postby torig » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:47 pm

[off-topic]

If you own an xbox (it's ancient tech, I know :roll: ) and would die to have a red-button feeling ,try to get ahold of the game Steel Battalion.
It comes with its own controller, which has over 40 buttons. One of those -the top right one in the screenshot - is a BIG RED BUTTON which is protected by a flip-case lid.
Flip open the lid and press said button before your mech -sorry "vertical tank"- explodes (or you lose A/ your pilot B/ with it, your savegame.) Half of the buttons on the controller are only used for the boot-up sequence of your VT (and they'll start flashing, so you know which buttons to press in sequence).


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[/off-topic]
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Postby prophile » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:34 pm

I want a SHARK button.

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