Persistent SOPs

[PSBirch]

This is probably a DefCon 2.0 suggestion, but I would like to see some sort of "Standard Operating Procedures" pane in which players can affect the behavior of their units when not under direct control, and/or battle-plan or action queue system. The sort of SOPs I'm thinking of are generally those that the game has a "default" behavior for already, or those that are general micromanagement things, ie:

Air-units:
- At defcons 3,2 all air units may not pass point-of-no-return on fuel status unless given direct orders otherwise
- At defcon 1, fighters may pass PONR on fuel to attack naval units or bombers (but not other fighters)
- At defcon 1, bombers may only pass PONR on fuel if engaging submarines or in SRBM mode
- At defcon 3, bombers do not take off with nukes on-board
- At defcons 3,2,1, bombers do not take off with nukes if they are directly targeted to naval units from their air-field/carrier
- in Naval mode, bombers should attack submarines, then battleships, then carriers
- fighters should attack bombers, then fighters, then carriers, then battleships, then submarines
- After firing nukes, bombers will return to the [closest|farthest|random|point-of-origin] airbase

Naval units:
- Carriers do not follow-on fighters unless they are in a battle group with battleships
- Once all orders are executed, carriers will switch to anti-sub mode regardless of number of fighters or bombers onboard
- Battleships should attack submarines, then bombers, then carriers, then other battleships, then fighters
- Submarines should attack submarines, then carriers, then battleships

Land units:
- If a silo in in ICBM mode and has no further targets, it should revert to AirDef Mode regardless of number of ICBMs left.
- If a silo is in ICBM mode and a nucular launch is detected [anywhere on the globe|any non-allied launch] it will immediately cease firing and revert to airdef mode
- Once a bomber lands at an airfield, airfield will switch to bomber launch mode and await orders if it is not in a launch cycle for fighters.

etc etc etc

Yes, there is an argument to be made that some of these reduce the "skill" necessary to win by automating a lot of micromanagement, but some, such as target preference order, should be free from such criticisms.

[Xocrates]

Oookay... I won't develop this much, I just want to say that many of those are simply a case of personal preferences and others would simply not work.

These in particular:

Land units:
- If a silo in in ICBM mode and has no further targets, it should revert to AirDef Mode regardless of number of ICBMs left.
- If a silo is in ICBM mode and a nucular launch is detected [anywhere on the globe|any non-allied launch] it will immediately cease firing and revert to airdef mode
- Once a bomber lands at an airfield, airfield will switch to bomber launch mode and await orders if it is not in a launch cycle for fighters.

Are particularly bad since in many cases none of these are desirable (and what do you mean by running out of targets?)

[PSBirch]

Oookay... I won't develop this much, I just want to say that many of those are simply a case of personal preferences

Exactly! Right now the preferences are those of the developers and are hardcoded into the game -- carriers following on fighters into battle being a prime example. Some way to change such preferences and have those changes be persistent would be ideal.

and others would simply not work.

These in particular:

Land units:
- If a silo in in ICBM mode and has no further targets, it should revert to AirDef Mode regardless of number of ICBMs left.

Are particularly bad since in many cases none of these are desirable (and what do you mean by running out of targets?)

I'd counter that this behavior is already in the game -- when a silo shoots off all it's ICBMs, or a carrier launches all its fighters, or a sub it's MRBMs, the units "mode" switches. Ultimately the SOP would be a different / additional trigger mechanism. Presently there is some sort of while loop that says something to the effect of ( while (#ICBMs > 0: shoot off ICBMs) set mode to AirDef ). a SOP would change that to ( while %ICBM_behavior: shoot off ICBMs) set mode to %ICBM_default_behavior) with all those little %vars pointing to various conditional arguments, one of which would be the present behavior, while others would be user-defined.

As to the desireability, some of these were jst examples to fill in stuff for each category. Others, such as the one re-quoted, are a matter of playing style; especially in diplomacy games since my silo locations are known anyway, I'll pop off a nuke or three from a silo to hit an otherwise unprotected radar, airfield, city, etc -- but not empty the whole of the silo. Same with subs -- especially as Europe; have a group off three or four subs shift-pop up, fire off a single salvo of MRBMs at a silo or the like, then pop back under water and scoot.

Anyways -- sometimes, when things get hairy, I don't always remember to switch said silo/sub *back* to AifDef/passive, and so I have to keep track of all of them to make sure I don't have my units exposed. It would be nice to have a mechanism to automate this and similar types of preferences / behaviors.

[Chimaera]

- If a silo is in ICBM mode and a nucular launch is detected [anywhere on the globe|any non-allied launch] it will immediately cease firing and revert to airdef mode

I'm sorry but that would be horrible. In the end game it would actually cause your own destruction:

1. Start launching at the opponent you have been sub-nuking when they have few installations.

2. When your other enemy starts launching at your ally, or even a random neutral, your silos stop launching.

3. You change your silos back

4. The SOPs change back to AD mode.

5. Having wasted around about 240s*3, you lose the game.

[bert_the_turtle]

The developers' rules for mode switches are simple, sensible and therefore good. In fact, it is just one rule: "No automatic mode changes, unless the current mode does not make sense any more." Mode switches take time, and the damage done by one out of place automated mode switch outweights the benefit of ten appropriate automated mode switches. There is just one change to that that may make sense, and that's "If the last user selected mode was automatically switched away from, but makes sense again now, switch back." That would send carriers I had told to launch all bombers back to bomber launch mode when a bomber lands on them, which is usually what I want. And it doesn't switch the fighter relay carriers to bomber launch mode if a bomber accidentally lands on the, But that would introduce a hidden variable: the last user selected mode. Hidden variables are bad UI, so that's a bad idea, too.

The PONR rules should also be just one rule: "Aircraft should only go beyond the PONR if explicitly ordered to.". Since there are practical problems with calculating the PONR (especially, return where? What if the carriers move?), we can't expect that to happen, though, and should be happy if they manage at least to get to "Aircraft should follow orders even if that means abandoning a target and landing safely."

Selecting targetting priorities for yourself sounds like a good idea.

[xander]

...and should be happy if they manage at least to get to "Aircraft should follow orders even if that means abandoning a target and landing safely."

And this would be my biggest complaint about Defcon -- fighters do not do what they are told. If you tell them to land on a carrier, they will often fly to the carrier, then notice an enemy, then fly to attack the enemy, crashing on the deck. Grrr...

xander

[Ace Rimmer]

...and should be happy if they manage at least to get to "Aircraft should follow orders even if that means abandoning a target and landing safely."

And this would be my biggest complaint about Defcon -- fighters do not do what they are told. If you tell them to land on a carrier, they will often fly to the carrier, then notice an enemy, then fly to attack the enemy, crashing on the deck. Grrr...

xander

This erks me as well, but I've learned that even in the heat of a full fledged naval battle with two players using their entire fleets that it's best to use the least amount of fighters/bombers as possible to get the job done. I.e., don't launch hordes of bombers or hordes of fighters at the enemy. Two or three that are micromanaged effectively can do a better job than 50 not/poorly micromanaged planes. The only exception to this might be when it's being played at 20x or you're using only fighters against numerous battleships.

[PSBirch]

- If a silo is in ICBM mode and a nuclear launch is detected [anywhere on the globe|any non-allied launch] it will immediately cease firing and revert to airdef mode

I'm sorry but that would be horrible. In the end game it would actually cause your own destruction...

Mode switches take time, and the damage done by one out of place automated mode switch outweights the benefit of ten appropriate automated mode switches.

Good points in both examples -- determining when units should switch modes is probably too complex a process to automate with a SOP. Perhaps a more general-utility hot-key would be in order? Right now you can shift-click to over-ride some targeting features; how about a ctrl-click or the like to enter the selected mode and perform the actions, then once those action are complete, switch back into the present mode?

[bert_the_turtle]

Or for more flexibility (you may have a carrier in fighter launch mode, want to launch its bombers and switch to ant-sub mode), a way to queue up a mode switch for when the unit has nothing else to do.

[MegaDeathKill!]

This is probably a DefCon 2.0 suggestion, but I would like to see some sort of "Standard Operating Procedures" pane in which players can affect the behavior of their units when not under direct control, and/or battle-plan or action queue system. The sort of SOPs I'm thinking of are generally those that the game has a "default" behavior for already, or those that are general micromanagement things, ie:

Air-units:
- At defcons 3,2 all air units may not pass point-of-no-return on fuel status unless given direct orders otherwise
- At defcon 1, fighters may pass PONR on fuel to attack naval units or bombers (but not other fighters)
- At defcon 1, bombers may only pass PONR on fuel if engaging submarines or in SRBM mode
- At defcon 3, bombers do not take off with nukes on-board
- At defcons 3,2,1, bombers do not take off with nukes if they are directly targeted to naval units from their air-field/carrier
- in Naval mode, bombers should attack submarines, then battleships, then carriers
- fighters should attack bombers, then fighters, then carriers, then battleships, then submarines
- After firing nukes, bombers will return to the [closest|farthest|random|point-of-origin] airbase

Naval units:
- Carriers do not follow-on fighters unless they are in a battle group with battleships
- Once all orders are executed, carriers will switch to anti-sub mode regardless of number of fighters or bombers onboard
- Battleships should attack submarines, then bombers, then carriers, then other battleships, then fighters
- Submarines should attack submarines, then carriers, then battleships

Land units:
- If a silo in in ICBM mode and has no further targets, it should revert to AirDef Mode regardless of number of ICBMs left.
- If a silo is in ICBM mode and a nucular launch is detected [anywhere on the globe|any non-allied launch] it will immediately cease firing and revert to airdef mode
- Once a bomber lands at an airfield, airfield will switch to bomber launch mode and await orders if it is not in a launch cycle for fighters.

etc etc etc

Yes, there is an argument to be made that some of these reduce the "skill" necessary to win by automating a lot of micromanagement, but some, such as target preference order, should be free from such criticisms.

I agree, it's a touch daft the way fighters keep going until they run out of fuel instead of RTB.

[Destiny/TheGuy]

Hi, I'm new to the forums. Just looking around. It's good you're thinking about improvements, but I have major problems with these:

Land units:
- If a silo in in ICBM mode and has no further targets, it should revert to AirDef Mode regardless of number of ICBMs left.
- If a silo is in ICBM mode and a nucular launch is detected [anywhere on the globe|any non-allied launch] it will immediately cease firing and revert to airdef .

Some games I leave my silos in ICBM launch mode when I'm not afraid of being nuked just to wait for the right time to launch, without having to wait 240 seconds. Also, I do this to time the nukes' arrivals from different silos to hit at the same time. If they just switched back to AA mode before getting a target, I couldn't do any of this.

For the second one, you could do a lot of silly things, like call of an opponent's attack by nuking their silos, firing a random nuke. For the most part of the game this would cause silos to be forever switching between the two modes, never staying in one for long enough to be any good.

I also think that you should have some preference for bombers to land on airfields/carriers that still have extra nukes.

[Fidel]

I like this ideas a lot. Maybe the ones that cant be automated in sake of playability can be priorized or, why not, using a gambit system similar to the one in Final Fantasy XII PS2? Dont know if youre fammiliar with it...good to dictate behaviour of units, works something like basic
"if carrier no nukes redirect bomber next stripe/carrier"
"if batleship in range attack batleships"
"if bomber in range attack bomber"
everithyng priorized by the place in the list
in condition doesnt verify, it goes to next line.
hope u understood what i meant.