Even Easier Mods

[shinygerbil]

For a long time now, it's been a sad fact that despite many, many awesome mods out there for DEFCON, no-one actually plays them. Ever. This is probably due to a combination of several things, including but not limited to:

-Relatively small userbase to begin with;
-Of that userbase, few actually read/participate in the forums, the main place to hear about mods;
-Of those that do, even fewer actually download every single mod and keep them up-to-date, ready to play any one at a moment's notice.

Now, I was wondering, is there an easier way to distribute user-made content? I think there probably is. What I'm thinking of is something similar to the way in which some other online games (particularly first-person shooters, such as Half-Life, Unreal tournament and the like) distribute user-made content, such as new maps, which is to simply have the client download the map from the server as it connects. Can't something similar be done with Defcon? I'd be very interested to hear any comments, whether they be reasons why it cannot be done, or suggested alternatives. I really think mods should be given more attention; I'm beginning to tire of our own Earth

An idea I mentioned in another thread, was for the metaserver to hold a simple text file with details of mods, their versions, and a URL to where the latest files can be downloaded. Then as a player connects to a game running a mod, they are given the option to download the mod from its location (which need not be hosted by IV, of course) and install it automatically. This would require either a standard format for compression (and file structure within the compressed file) or for the files to be downloaded individually, which makes more sense to me.

The problem with this setup is that Introversion would have to constantly update a mod database for it to work, which is why I have also suggested the option for clients to download straight from the host. This comes with its own problems, though, such as the lack of version control, if someone decides to download and play with an older version.

Either way, I'd like to see a more streamlined mod system. I'm obviously extremely grateful to Introversion for expanding and improving mod support within DEFCON already, but I think that the mod scene could really kick off if there were an even simpler way to download mods and get playing with them.

[KingAl]

The mod system could definitely do with a bit of streamlining. The only problem I can see is that, when downloading mods hosted by people other than IV via the Defcon interface, IV could be held responsible for damage done as a result (though a EULA can easily deal with this...).

[shinygerbil]

Nobody else care for mods?

[mosey]

All the mods i've seen available are just new maps (and some new graphics) that don't really change the game. Letting the server choose a map and having autodownloading available would be nice features for a new version.

Right now, there is no way for users to make real mods. I can think of a lot of fun ways to truly modify the game (pretargeting cities, no abms, better AI at all levels, and auto-launch on defcon 1 to name a few), but all these require Introversion to let users tweak pieces of the game code. I'd like Introversion to decide which portions of their game are "core" and open the rest up for us to tweak.

[thindigital]

agreed mosey

mods for the game are mainly sound / graphics skins, personally i would like to see 2 or 3 extra 'blank' unit slots created
to allow a few new unit types. (in my case, AWACS and refueling tankers to flesh out the airforces)

most of the map mods dont make sense because of the wrapping Space and Mars been the exceptions tht come to mind..

some here are of the opinion tht the game is perfect and rail against suggestions of new units and mods as i understand the term.

starnge as the nature of mods is to change how games look AND play, extending longevity and variety.

im sure if IV didnt want this kind of discussion, they wouldnt have made a modding forum.

anyone else want to see 'deeper' mods ?

[torig]

You make a valid point thindigital, but the problem is Defcon -in its current state- grows on you very fast.
When I think about "deeper modding", all I can say is a loud YES!.
But when I look around and read some of the ideas, or see screenshots from some mods (only skins/units/...) I'm quite adverse to using them because I love vanilla Defcon so much.

[shinygerbil]

A good "deeper mod" would be wonderful, but most people don't have good ideas. Those ideas that people may consider good would take a hell of a lot of tweaking and balancing to get right. All I want to see is a more streamlined way to download and play mods than just browsing the forum and then hoping that everyone else has just happened to browse the forum and that they all want to play it at the same time.

I'd rather see a server, see that it's running, say the Space mod, and join and start playing, rather than running to defcongame.tk and then cross-referencing with the latest forum post, finding the latest version, then extracting it all manually and checking the paths are right.

[mosey]

A good "deeper mod" would be wonderful, but most people don't have good ideas. Those ideas that people may consider good would take a hell of a lot of tweaking and balancing to get right. All I want to see is a more streamlined way to download and play mods than just browsing the forum and then hoping that everyone else has just happened to browse the forum and that they all want to play it at the same time.

Any multiplayer game relies on a whole set of coincidences and the prospect of bad ideas should not be a deterrent. Consider Quake; there are many bad mods and a few good ones and the good ones do get played.

I'd rather see a server, see that it's running, say the Space mod, and join and start playing, rather than running to defcongame.tk and then cross-referencing with the latest forum post, finding the latest version, then extracting it all manually and checking the paths are right.

I agree with your second point shiny, this should be a priority for IV.

[kentuckyfried]

Mods could be downloaded in packs instead of individually, that would be an easy contribution to help things.

[thindigital]

w8 a minute here! i do agree tht vanilla defcon is smashing a great game in its own right - even if there were 100's of TC's for it id still mainly play vanilla, id just like to see the option to play with a few additional modded in units, to ensure balance was kept these could be non offensive unit types, but i relise IV are well busy atm and with limited manpower we can but dream

how about a dedicated Space server and one for the Mars mod too?

[Hyperion]

Are there any mods that need be 'server only'? so as dedcon servers could run them perhaps?

I dont play mods (not for trying in my early defcon days) because of the interface and trying to get them started and finding other people to play with them also.

[bert_the_turtle]

Are there any mods that need be 'server only'? so as dedcon servers could run them perhaps?

No and no The game logic its completely on the clients. The server can filter and modify commands like it does for the Radar Defense mode, but due to several ambiguities, the possibilities are limited. For example, naval nuking can't be prevented because a silo launching into the open sea is indistinguishable from a carrier launching fighters to the same location, and the mode of a bomber sent to attack a ship is unknown. The server can distinguish commands for airplanes from commands for all other units, and it knows whether the target of an attack is open space, a city (in both cases, the attack will be a nuke), an airplane, or something else. With a bit of work (analyzing sailable.bmp), ships and installations could be distinguishable as targets.

[Angel of Death]

Personally I dont deal much (at all) with moding. The ONLY thing that I have ever done or still do is change the graphics of my planes and installations. My fighters are F15's my AA's are from a graghic I found from one of the mods and when they go into launch mode they look like missles coming out of the ground instead of the default. My subs are different and my Air Ports are different. I left the carriers and BS cause i have not seen anything I like. Bad thing is that no one else sees what I see during the game. I'm suprised that I dont get sync errors.

[Chimaera]

As much as I admire people who spend their time making TCs or other 'deep mods', the only mods I actually use are the graphics mods (WOPR for me, currently). As I have seen from my long ago days of playing Counterstrike:Source, too many mods aren't neccessarily the best thing - half the time you have to wait for ten minutes to download miscellaneous sounds that you will never hear or a game-mode you don't want to play, by which time you have timed out. Although of course the games are completely different in almost every respect, it shows the problems that occur when the game becomes a victim of it's own modding immediacy. As there are already several variables (ie. I always look for diplomacy games over all others, then the priority is dedscon servers) to consider already, this is my brief caveat aimed at the geniuses who create such mods.

[shinygerbil]

Oh, I concur entirely. I never liked downloading "OMG TEH FUNNIEST SIMPSNOS SOUDN PAKC U WIL EVAR HEER!!1"