Things: Kamikazes and Naval Nukes

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Radiant Caligula
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Postby Radiant Caligula » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:35 pm

C/Airman_Curtis wrote:With the naval nuking i hate it, i was playing R.F.Q on the Parinoid UK server and it was awful. He launched so many nukes into the ocean that my whole fleet was destroyed after i decimated his fleet. Off the coast of his continent the water was glowing green. When i attacked the remaining parts of his navy with the reamining subs on my coast i had to move them ASAP because there would be almost 25 nukes going off around that sub. THe best way i found to hide my fleet from nukes was to move to where the first nuke hit, hopping he didnt send two to that spot. It was a horrible game, after my fleet was gone i lost all my bombers since i had transfered them. I really hate people like that. And this wasent 1 or two nukes this was a whole white area of ocean.


obviously someone who lacks target practice. I too enjoy carpet bombing every now and then, but usually I mince enemy fleets the oldfashioned way.

Feud is right, I'm a bit grumpy today. Not my intention to blast this off, but I seriously think guys who hate ocean nukes have to contemplate what war really is. In C&C or any other RTS it's stinks like hell to see your whole platoon get blown to bits by airstrikes. But hey, thats war. Nobody told you should like it. You think people in Afghanistan says: "if they only stopped raining cluster bombs on us we'd have a perfectly entertaining war!"?

I know, I know it's just a simple RTS. Which happens to have 3 kinds of nukes in it. Grow up and suck it down like the genocidal maniacs you're pretending to be.


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Postby C/Airman_Curtis » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:48 pm

I dont hate ocean nuking, sometimes i have to resort to it, but those who will carpet bomb the North alantic have serious problems. I mean from his coast to my coast from england to SA it was raining nukes, that what i hate.
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Postby KingAl » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:49 pm

He's wasting plenty of nukes. Use his excess to your advantage - that's the nature of the game.
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Postby C/Airman_Curtis » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:51 pm

No he still had plently left, i know he managed to carpet bomb my continent after that.
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Postby torq » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:08 pm

C/Airman_Curtis wrote:With the naval nuking i hate it, i was playing R.F.Q on the Parinoid UK server and it was awful. He launched so many nukes into the ocean that my whole fleet was destroyed after i decimated his fleet. Off the coast of his continent the water was glowing green. When i attacked the remaining parts of his navy with the reamining subs on my coast i had to move them ASAP because there would be almost 25 nukes going off around that sub. THe best way i found to hide my fleet from nukes was to move to where the first nuke hit, hopping he didnt send two to that spot. It was a horrible game, after my fleet was gone i lost all my bombers since i had transfered them. I really hate people like that. And this wasent 1 or two nukes this was a whole white area of ocean.
So - you should learn a lesson from it. Don't cluster your ships closely together, perform a fighter reconnaissance. Don't just send all ships to the blind spot on the map hoping that your enemy wouldn't see you.


I'm sometimes amazed by the naiveness people send subs to northern sea with (when I play for Europe). They cannot be aware of the fact that there are ALWAYS carriers in anti sub mode there. They send them nevertheless. Why?

When you cluster your fleet you create a perfect target for bombing so this is entirely your fault.

About fleet movements - when you move your fleet somewhere, launch bombers to both of your flanks, then set one of your carriers to anti sub mode, then proceed with movement - when you spot an enemy fighter (even a single one) spread up, and launch a fighter screen, because bombers will follow soon. Arrange your bombers to be behind your fleet but keep them within firing range, don't get them too close (hint: bomber can fire backwards, it really doesn't matter where your bombers are headed - they would still fire at the enemy BS). When they are airborne you've got a fair chance to save them even if your carriers get sunk. And the fact that they are behind your fleet will make enemy fighters pass through your fighter screen first and then through your battleships. Another tip - don't just waste your fighters as many do. Micromanage them and order them to return for refuelling. You can organize them in waves. Attack bombers first, not the ships (if nothing else that will leave your opponent with no bombers). Even if you see nukes coming there's still a fair chance to outmaneuver them (send ships directly towards the nuke - most probably they'll fly over your ships then. Make fleet movements chaotic so that your enemy wouldn't be able to predict precisely where would your ships go and will waste his nukes. By the time you saw the bombers - your fighters should be ALREADY in the air. Even if your whole fleet gets nuked - use fighters to kill as many bombers as you can (they woudn't replenish and their numbers are limited) so that they wouldn't haunt you later. And of course, you can nuke the fleet of your opponent just the same way he did (just give your bombers enough approach time) - if you see things are turning to worse - withdraw your bombers farther behind and order them to launch SRBM's at the curent position of your fleet. Then begin withdrawing your ships back. Your enemy will advance right to the spot nukes will hit. Target battleships if you plan a counteroffence or carriers if you're too outnumbered. Once they are done - launch remaining fighters to the last know position of enemy carriers and engage a dogfight (keep bombers in the air after they launched SRBM's they will fire at carriers too and try to keep your fighters just over enemy ships - accidental crash can sink a ship too). I managed once to defend NA against the whole European fleet with only 2 battleships and 4 carriers this way.
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Postby C/Airman_Curtis » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:15 pm

I hadent clustered all but 2 fleets, the rest of them where spread out, yet he got almost every ship and several subs. Then when a single sub attacked a ship a hail of nukes landed where it was, killing it almost all the time.
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Postby torq » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:18 pm

Well, blame it on a bad luck. I seldom see a complete obliteration of the fleet by carpet bombings. Moreover - this tactics may turn out to be a disaster for people who use it, because if they fail to eliminate your fleet the consequences are usually deadly. He just don't have enough time to organize the second echelon of defense. Subs approach and launch while bombers are gone to refuel or were shot down.
Last edited by torq on Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby C/Airman_Curtis » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:19 pm

Well he carpet bombed the whole north alantic basically, my fleet was obliterated...
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Postby torq » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:21 pm

C/Airman_Curtis wrote:Well he carpet bombed the whole north alantic basically, my fleet was obliterated...


Do you realize the sheer amount of nukes he'd spent on it? It's always a risk to waste nukes like that. Next time you'll be prepared :)

If you play for USA - send three bombers to cover Iceland. EU may or may not have Radar/Airbase there but three nukes will guarantee it hasn't.
Last edited by torq on Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby C/Airman_Curtis » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:22 pm

Well the worst part is i couldnt see any nukes flying... I couldnt even tell where the bombers where coming from or returning to...
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Postby torq » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:23 pm

C/Airman_Curtis wrote:Well the worst part is i couldnt see any nukes flying... I couldnt even tell where the bombers where coming from or returning to...


Where were your fighters?
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Postby C/Airman_Curtis » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:25 pm

On the carriers, i had decimated his navy and didnt expect ships. The nukes came so suddenly i couldnt even move my fighters out or bombers. EVERYTHING, every plane, every boat, was headed to the bottom of the alantic.
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Postby torq » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:49 pm

C/Airman_Curtis wrote:On the carriers, i had decimated his navy and didnt expect ships. The nukes came so suddenly i couldnt even move my fighters out or bombers. EVERYTHING, every plane, every boat, was headed to the bottom of the alantic.


You've answered yourself. You did not expect ships but if your fleet gets sunk what do you usually do? Right, you scramble every bomber you can find and send them after enemy fleet. If you had decimated his navy you should have expected bombers to appear. It's only logical.
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:07 pm

Feud wrote: But no game is perfect, it cannot be everything to everyone.

Lies! Defcon is perfect, anybody who disagrees with that is simply ignoring its perfection.


C/Airman_Curtis wrote:On the carriers, i had decimated his navy and didn't expect ships. The nukes came so suddenly I couldn't even move my fighters out or bombers. EVERYTHING, every plane, every boat, was headed to the bottom of the Atlantic.

I really find this hard to believe unless you were playing at 20x and not paying enough attention.

Had I decimated the other players fleet, I would not have wasted my time in taking advantage of this and thus given him the opportunity to carpet bomb the ocean. Either way, it sounds like you should have been able to easily win that particular game with the excess waste of your opponent, assuming it was 1v1.
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Postby Eat_The_Path » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:08 pm

It's not an exploit, no. It's not cheating, no. Particularly if the devs haven't come down against it yet. But it can still be against the spirit of the game, and let my explain what I mean by this.

If you take every other element of the game besides naval nuking, you get a certain feel from the game. A style to it, a type of gameplay. Naval nukes go against the grain of that style. They feel entirely different.

I to have been the victim of carpet bombing. As russia vs europe, the enemy's opening move the defcon 1 was to simply blanket my deployment area. In fact, he didn't hit the entire sea. He somehow managed, without scouts, to draw a white line of fire across the heart of my fleet. There was no way I could defend, as he had moved the bombers north and over my line of sight, unless I had somehow magicly sent fighters up there. And then he obtained total naval domination.

For those of you that say 'war is hell', that really isn't a good argument. Yes, war is hell. A game should be fun. Wargames extract the nuggets of fun from the idea of war. Defcon is hardly realistic to begin with, and I don't think I need to enumerate the ways. Arguing that anti-ship or anti-air nukes are realistic is pointless.

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