Putting more of the Keyboard in the game

[phalamander]

Hello all,

This is my first post. Be gentle.

I just recently picked up a copy of Defcon and instantly loved it (finally something that occupies my short attention span). It is a fun and fast paced game. Although, there are times where I am clumsy and my mouse cannot keep up with what I want to do. I have grown accustomed to hotkeys from other games and I believe that the same mechanics applied to Defcon will improve as well as speed the game up.

I suggest the following:

1. Move the speed keys from numbers to the function keys e.g. F1 is Slow, F2 is Normal, F3 is Fast, and F4 is Fastest

**2. Above QWERTY, make the number keys ( 1 - 6 ) designate each silo and numbers ( 7 - 0 ) designate each silo. Pressing 1 would highlight the first silo you put down. Pressing 1 again, will switch the silo between Air Defense and ICBM mode. The same applies to Airfields in regards to Fighters and Bombers.

Being able to cycle through your silos and airfields is important too, since some people may lose track of the structures they have lost to enemy fire. I think the Tab key should cycle through your silos and the key above it, "`", should cycle through your airfields.

In doing so, you do not have to fumble around (or at least in my case) looking for each of your silos. In addition, there will be less time click clicking away and moving back and forth between silo/airfield and target.

Edit:
Pardon my newbness, I just saw a game with more than six silos...I need to reformat the layout for structures. >10 structures kind of ruins everything. lol
**

3. After selecting a fleet, pressing Shift, goes through each ship. Again, this reduces time moving your mouse between your own unit and an enemy's.

4. After a unit is selected (either by mouse click or the Shift option), the letter F key will change the mode of the unit. I don't know many seconds I have lost configuring what cruisers and subs should do...

I believe this is very ergonomic and add more action to the game without sacrificing its simplicity. I hope you do too.


Edit: ***SCRAPED***
Oh yea, just a little off topic and another little suggestion.

Satellite sweep. To add a tiny twist to game.

Each faction controls a satellite that performs a limited reconnaissance. Basically, you select this feature, pick a point on the map and an area of coverage 50% that of a radar station will be revealed to you. It will show enemy structures and units. It cannot detect submarines. And it has a cooldown of 1 minute before another usage.

To disable an enemy's satellite, all of his radar stations must be destroyed. As radar stations are the uplinks for the satellites. I was also thinking that a destroyed radar station will hinder satellite use as in increasing cooldown time, maybe 15seconds per station. I realize that not all players will want to destroy all stations.

I think this can be a great addition to Defcon in that it will prioritize positioning strategy for both structures and units and give an edge to offensive players ( I do not like turtles ). It will also give radar stations more importance to the game.



That's my two cents. Thanks for reading. Looking forward to your comments.

[ynbniar]

I'm not keen on the idea of hotkeys myself - I suspect it might "dumb down" the game a bit plus make things easier for players who are already very good with the existing control system.

There are a few other threads where this is discussed in more detail I think.

Not sure if the satellite idea is a winner either...it's a big part of the game not knowing where your opponents units are...there are many players out there who are extremely adept at nuking fleets for example...one sweep of the satellite and a few seconds later you'll have two dozens tactical nukes on their way to say hello to your navy.

[Weps]

Not sure if the satellite idea is a winner either...it's a big part of the game not knowing where your opponents units are...there are many players out there who are extremely adept at nuking fleets for example...one sweep of the satellite and a few seconds later you'll have two dozens tactical nukes on their way to say hello to your navy.

ROFL

Anyways, the radar sweep is definitly a nono. Unless, maybe, you can only sweep once, for a very limited area. But still, that would make europe even more a giveaway.

It works perfectly now, i've never seen a game wherein it was this easy to select a unit even if there are like 20 overlapping. And I can't imagine (but that's just me) that someone has a hard time figuring out where that one silo of his is. I'm afraid it would get him more puzzled if he had to assign a key to them (euh, where is F3 again... o right, here, now, what silo is attached to it...)

I would still like some shortcuts tho, but rather, like you mentioned, to switch fighter/bomber/sonar -mode, nuke/cap etc.

[Xocrates]

Not sure if the satellite idea is a winner either...it's a big part of the game not knowing where your opponents units are...there are many players out there who are extremely adept at nuking fleets for example...one sweep of the satellite and a few seconds later you'll have two dozens tactical nukes on their way to say hello to your navy.

Exactly! Also, many strategies are based upon placing your stuff outside radar range. The ability to counter this, even if limited, will change the game too significantly.

Some additional shortcut keys might be useful though.

[phalamander]

I see your points regarding the satellite sweep. I just watched Europe get decimated and such a feature as a sweep will definitely cripple Europe even more. I retract that proposal. =p

[quote='"Weps"]
It works perfectly now, i've never seen a game wherein it was this easy to select a unit even if there are like 20 overlapping. And I can't imagine (but that's just me) that someone has a hard time figuring out where that one silo of his is. I'm afraid it would get him more puzzled if he had to assign a key to them (euh, where is F3 again... o right, here, now, what silo is attached to it...)
[/quote]

I agree that the system works fine as it is. But I think it can a be more streamlined. Suppose, you are half way across the world and feel that it is a perfect time to nuke your opponent. I just do not like the idea of dragging my mouse from one end of the world to the other about four to six times. I am just asking for a bit of convenience. Makes it better playing on a laptop as well. ^^ And that is what hot keys are for: to issue commands on the fly.

I don't know. I just find the current system a little bit cluttered. The mouse pointer is probably dragged around for a mile per game.

Eh. Maybe I am just underestimating the use of slowing down playing speed to coordinate attacks.

As for the guy who cannot find his silo, I suppose he can just keep on playing with just the mouse.

I'm not keen on the idea of hotkeys myself - I suspect it might "dumb down" the game a bit plus make things easier for players who are already very good with the existing control system.

I would have to disagree ynbniar. Hotkeyying gives you the power to multi-task. Say, you are fighting a fleet with your own. You are Europe in the Indian Ocean (very improbable but stick with me). You don't want to lose a step to your opponent while you are dragging your mouse to your silo clicking away, losing sight of the action. You would want to send a quick command to send a couple fighters/bombers or even a nuke to your position. I don't believe it will dumb down the game.

Of course, again, I am underestimating the power of game slow down.


The main point I want to get across is that the game can be streamlined so that you do not need to slow down the game.

[zkl]

i would love to see hotkeys like

-switching radar on off
-switching communications on /off
-switching whiteboard on/off

[xander]

I would have to disagree ynbniar. Hotkeyying gives you the power to multi-task. Say, you are fighting a fleet with your own. You are Europe in the Indian Ocean (very improbable but stick with me). You don't want to lose a step to your opponent while you are dragging your mouse to your silo clicking away, losing sight of the action. You would want to send a quick command to send a couple fighters/bombers or even a nuke to your position. I don't believe it will dumb down the game.

My objection to hot-keys is that they give you the ability to multi-task. One of the challenges of the the game is learning to do many things at once without using the computer as a crutch. It is supposed to be difficult to get bombers to the Indian Ocean from Europe without finding an airbase, &c. At any rate, in the 10 seconds that it takes to scroll to Europe, select an airbase, and launch bombers, almost nothing will have happened in realtime. You aren't losing anything.

xander

[Ace Rimmer]

... You would want to send a quick command to send a couple fighters/bombers or even a nuke to your position. I don't believe it will dumb down the game.

Which would be of no help. Simply launching bomber/fighters especially when you wouldn't be looking at them or their destination would only mean you would lose those units. They most likely would fly out and run out of fuel/give away your position/get shot down all most likely without ever engaging your opponent. The best you could hope for is for them to return to your carrier.

Using a silo to nuke something in the Indian is a waste of time/resources unless its a last ditch desperate measure.

[Sirthomasthegreat]

I would have to disagree ynbniar. Hotkeyying gives you the power to multi-task. Say, you are fighting a fleet with your own. You are Europe in the Indian Ocean (very improbable but stick with me). You don't want to lose a step to your opponent while you are dragging your mouse to your silo clicking away, losing sight of the action. You would want to send a quick command to send a couple fighters/bombers or even a nuke to your position. I don't believe it will dumb down the game.

My objection to hot-keys is that they give you the ability to multi-task. One of the challenges of the the game is learning to do many things at once without using the computer as a crutch. It is supposed to be difficult to get bombers to the Indian Ocean from Europe without finding an airbase, &c. At any rate, in the 10 seconds that it takes to scroll to Europe, select an airbase, and launch bombers, almost nothing will have happened in realtime. You aren't losing anything.

xander

I completely agree with xander (first time in a while). After all the president can only talk to one person on the red phone at a time.

[shinygerbil]

i would love to see hotkeys like

-switching radar on off
-switching communications on /off
-switching whiteboard on/off

I'd actually like to see those. (Especially the chat one, although one for each of the buttons along the bottom would be nice.) I don't think they'd detract from the "single-tasking" aspect of Defcon, and in the case of my poor ol' laptop, there's a fair amount of lag attached to the mouse, so doing anything is fiddly.

[phalamander]

@xander

You missed my point. I want to shave off those 10 seconds without having to slow down the game. I have said from the start that the system works fine as it is, but what I am suggesting is that it can be better. I do not see hotkeys as a crutch, more as a tool to help you in battle. If anything, slowing down the game's pace is the crutch.

I think the situation here can be summed up in the phrase: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Maybe it is because alot of players here are attracted to Defcon because of the micromanagement involved. I don't see why hotkeys is opposed so much here. If it's implemented, you will be able to control your units more fluidly. If you do not like hot keys or not able to control hotkeys effectively, slow down the game. I just feel that without hotkeys or shortcuts, the game feels a bit too repetitive. Click click clicking around, when a simple keystroke can do the same thing.

It reduces fatigue too. =p

@Ace Rimmer

It was merely an example, but thanks for the tip on my upcoming games.

@sirthomasthegreat
When I think of hotkeys, it kind of reminds me of the Star Wars scene where the Rebel Fighters are trying to destroy the Death Star. They used names to distinguish and to help each other out. "Red leader. You got one on your tail." "Gold leader. TIE squadron 9 o'clock." The system we have now is like "Hey you." "You. Over there." But, lol, enough nerd talk.

@skl
That's a great idea! Why didn't I think of that?

[xander]

You missed my point. I want to shave off those 10 seconds without having to slow down the game. I have said from the start that the system works fine as it is, but what I am suggesting is that it can be better. I do not see hotkeys as a crutch, more as a tool to help you in battle. If anything, slowing down the game's pace is the crutch.

You missed my point. The game forces you to zoom out, look around at what is going on, and do things manually. I have seen some really good players that can do that at 10x. I generally stick to 1x or 5x, but that's just me. The point is that the game is not about multitasking. You claim that hotkeying silos &c. will give you the ability to multitask, which is in direct contrast to the way the rest of the game works. If you are mentally capable of multitasking, then it is possible with the game as it is now -- it is a skill. You want to remove the requirement for that skill. And please don't give me a song and dance about fighting the interface. That's not what is going on. At 20x, it might be a problem, but not at 1x.

Furthermore, there is an advantage to being forced to zoom out and back to your airbases or silos or whatever. It gives you a good view of the globe. If you are focusing on an area in the Indian Ocean, and North American bombers are on their way to Tokyo, you would never know it if you hotkeyed. However, if you are forced to zoom out, you have a better chance of catching them.

You quote the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I believe that is a good approach to things. Do you disagree? In my not-so-humber opinion, Defcon ain't broke (well, there are bugs, and other complaints that I might make, but that isn't one of them), so I see no reason to fix it. You also make the appeal that there is a lot of micromanagement involved in Defcon. In many ways, that is the point. That is how Defcon was intended to be. If you don't like micro, don't play Defcon. As far as I can tell, there isn't another game on the market that is like Defcon. Defcon is good because it is unique. Hotkeys would be a step in the direction of making Defcon much like every other RTS out there.

Basically, I think that the idea of hotkeys (not your idea, by the way -- search the boards, it has been brought up before) shatters much of the simplicity of the game, complicates the interface, and has more disadvantages than advantages. In the end, I just don't like the idea.

xander

[phalamander]

You missed my point. The game forces you to zoom out, look around at what is going on, and do things manually. I have seen some really good players that can do that at 10x. I generally stick to 1x or 5x, but that's just me. The point is that the game is not about multitasking. You claim that hotkeying silos &c. will give you the ability to multitask, which is in direct contrast to the way the rest of the game works. If you are mentally capable of multitasking, then it is possible with the game as it is now -- it is a skill. You want to remove the requirement for that skill. And please don't give me a song and dance about fighting the interface. That's not what is going on. At 20x, it might be a problem, but not at 1x.

Furthermore, there is an advantage to being forced to zoom out and back to your airbases or silos or whatever. It gives you a good view of the globe. If you are focusing on an area in the Indian Ocean, and North American bombers are on their way to Tokyo, you would never know it if you hotkeyed. However, if you are forced to zoom out, you have a better chance of catching them.

You quote the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I believe that is a good approach to things. Do you disagree? In my not-so-humber opinion, Defcon ain't broke (well, there are bugs, and other complaints that I might make, but that isn't one of them), so I see no reason to fix it. You also make the appeal that there is a lot of micromanagement involved in Defcon. In many ways, that is the point. That is how Defcon was intended to be. If you don't like micro, don't play Defcon. As far as I can tell, there isn't another game on the market that is like Defcon. Defcon is good because it is unique. Hotkeys would be a step in the direction of making Defcon much like every other RTS out there.

Basically, I think that the idea of hotkeys (not your idea, by the way -- search the boards, it has been brought up before) shatters much of the simplicity of the game, complicates the interface, and has more disadvantages than advantages. In the end, I just don't like the idea.

xander

I understand your position about preserving the simplicity of the game and I agree.

I want to clear up some confusion. I use the terms shortcuts and hotkeys interchangeably. So lets make a distinction between the two. Hotkeying will be used for assigning units to a keystroke. Shortcuts will have a certain function e.g. pressing R will toggle radar function on/off.

Do you have objections to both or just the idea of hotkeys? If just to hotkeys, I believe there are many shortcuts that will benefit every player. Taking your example above concerning zooming, would a shortcut taking you to world view, giving a quick reference of the battlefield, and back to the zoom you previously had, be a good feature?

I have been saying throughout the entire discussion, from the start, that the game is fine as it is. However, there can be little tweaks here and there that can improve it. We still don't ride around with stone wheels.

"The point is that the game is not about multitasking. You claim that hotkeying silos &c. will give you the ability to multitask, which is in direct contrast to the way the rest of the game works. If you are mentally capable of multitasking, then it is possible with the game as it is now -- it is a skill. You want to remove the requirement for that skill."

I don't understand how I am removing the requirement for multitasking. Hotkeying will make people lazy and less perceptive? In my experiences playing various RTS games, I learned how to hotkey well after learning how to play the game. It helped me organize my forces more effectively and helped me become a better player overall.

Of course all of these RTS did not have the feature of slowing down time, so I can see how it would be lost on a game like Defcon. I can deal with going into real time to issue commands. I do not believe that hotkeys will detract the uniqueness of Defcon in anyway but rather enrich it. But that's just a matter of opinion. I don't hope to change your mind. Defcon is definitely a niche game but I think we can attract alot of new players if Defcon can give them something familiar.

Hotkeys do not complicate the game. You always have to choice to use or not use it.

[hellcatv]

As someone who has gone through suffering from RSI, hotkeys are an absolute must---

Perhaps the IV developers don't have RSI yet--and maybe none of them will get it, but chances are before they grow old one of them will have it--and either he will have to avoid testing the games he built so hard, or he will realize that the mouse is a terrible curse. keyboards aren't for changing the gameplay, they are to reduce fatigue while playing the game.

Keyboard is a crutch--- because there are plenty of us out here that can't walk--and IV has built their DEFCON building without ramps or elevators

That said much of my RSI problem has faded---but I still feel it lurking, and I hesitate to play DEFCON much more for fear that it will come back in force....

[Trident]

i would love to see hotkeys like

-switching radar on off
-switching communications on /off
-switching whiteboard on/off

totally agree, i dont think hotkeys are needed for unit selection but i would like to use them for the toolbar, including 'orders'. i dont know about others but i play with orders on for most of the game.