DEFCON II...or how I learned to not worry and love the bomb

Ideas for expansions and improvements to Defcon

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bert_the_turtle
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Postby bert_the_turtle » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:37 pm

General: If you want to play the cold war, try the classic "Balance of Power". What will probably tick you off is that it's game over, you lost, if a nuclear war actually breaks out.

Otherwise, you may have had less flames if you stated clearly that
- these ideas are NOT meant for Defcon. Maybe for a Defcon mod if possible (it isn't)
- the ideas are NOT only for IV alone, but for anyone who wants to write wargame

To say something positive, you made me add a Defcon-style game to the list of games I want to write one day. It doesn't mean much as it is a long list, but there you go. With Defcon-style I mean: limited set of unit types, units with different modes of operation and switching time between them, abstract interface.

Strange that you mention hating Civilization; the main critique of the first iteration was the unrealistic battle system where a unit would either destroy the attacked unit or get destroyed itself, based on some stat values. A very similar system to Defcon. And unrealistic unit counts have to be seen symbolically. A single soldier in Civilization does not represent a single soldier in general, it is a whole division. A single settler is not just a guy drawing a waggon behind him, it's a whole trek. Same in Defcon; real superpowers have far more than the hundredsomething nukes available they have in Defcon. What does it matter, really, apart from scale? It's an abstraction to keep things managable. If you really want the unit count somewhat fixed, you should try and see whether a mod for Supreme Commander is possible.
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Postby Xocrates » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:44 pm

General Turgetson wrote:2: DEFCON is a game where you are SUPPSOED to fight the computer (Have you even seen wargames?)


However, Defcon is not wargames. And Defcon is at is best when played online.

General Turgetson wrote:3: Look man, I can't mod. My Idea would be a mod I would enjoy.


Then you make a post called "idea for a mod", not "DEFCON 2"

General Turgetson wrote:4: It is just an IDEA


That you didn't defend.

General Turgetson wrote:5: I said Water transports would be added

6: I reccomended a larger more detailed map


And you made no reference to the other issues this would raise. What would happen if I sunk all your transports while your units are still on land? With bigger more detailed maps wouldn't naval combat fall into the background?

General Turgetson wrote:7: I meant have any GOOD ideas made it through I don't care if someone said "The missle contrails should be wider" or whatever. I mean has any one come in and said something like "We should make DEFCON on mars" and people didn't tear it apart.


No, but they made it. And it wasn't bashed.


General Turgetson wrote:Look man, just don't post here anymore, you have nothing to say I want to hear. No offense meant by it, I just don't want to have to rant at you again.


I'm offering you feedback! If I'm not being particularly nice it's because you aren't either. Sell me your idea! Don't stand up to me and say "If you don't like it, F*** off!" If I told you to go play some other game was my way of telling you your ideas already exist and are a completely different game.

I like Defcon the way it is. I'm not going to allow someone with an half assed idea to say it should be completely different because they want to.

Either you convince me, or you won't get me to shut up.
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Thank you

Postby General Turgetson » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:11 am

Bert the Turtle, i love you.

Thank you so much for posting properly. That was what I needed to hear. I have learned my lesson about DEFCON forums. Balance of Power I will check out, it sounds awesome. Too bad about the nuclear war thing though.

And as for Xocrates:

How can I convince you if you've made up your mind?

I can't bring this idea to the modders....I saw what the mainstream guys did, imagine what they would do to me!

Oh i agree, it is best online, however Every guy I played was an A-hole. He would use lousy tactics to win. Stuff like fire all of his bomber nukes at one silo at a time until I was defenseless, I figured, the CPU plays far more realistically.

I have been defending the fact that this was an Idea the whole time!!! That's why i kept saying: THIS IS AN IDEA!!!


as for the naval issues: not nessecarily. Bigger map, the naval battles would be way more important. Like you said, you would have to defend transports and landing sites and whatnot.

if your trasnports are destroyed....tough luck. Same thing when an airfield is destroyed, you're screwed.

Yeah I know about the mars thing. But basicaly my point is, I want DEFCON with more conventional warfare, and I was waiting for either

1: someone to agree (Didn't happen)

2: Someone to tell me about the game I was actually lookign for (Did happen)

so I bid you adue. I say...royaly screw this idea, no one wants to make my idea a reality? well I will get it myself then, I found what I want.

well, sorry but your feedback made me feel like shit. I didn't quite like that. But my point is, let me say my idea without tearing it apart, if you don't like it, tell me. THen go away. Just don't stick around to kill it. You actually think I am liek tryign to phase out DEFCON or soemthing? like introversion would do my idea. I am sure they have much better things to do.


Now good day sir, I see my ideas aren't welcome here. I guess I was hoping to meet another person who had the same itnerests as me. Basically this, I came lookign for soemone to talk about this idea with, you know, theoretically, instead i had four hundred peopel land on me feet frst for putting a drastic idea out there.

Sorry. Guess originality isn't welcome here.

oh and by the way, Xocrates, if i came off as a jerk i apologize, I have no tolerance for people online.
It was some where between "Go play civlizaton" and "It is actually written: How I leanred to stop worrying and love the bomb"
after I went a little hazy....well anyway. You won't see me around here anymore I am off to catch the Ruskies with their pants down.
I learned to love the bomb....have you?
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Re: Thank you

Postby Xocrates » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:35 am

General Turgetson wrote:well, sorry but your feedback made me feel like shit. I didn't quite like that. But my point is, let me say my idea without tearing it apart, if you don't like it, tell me. THen go away. Just don't stick around to kill it.


"Killing" the idea, as you put it, is nothing more than test it. If it lives, then it is a well conceived idea that can be taken into further consideration. If it doesn't, then it needs more work.
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Postby KingAl » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:41 am

I'd say the closest thing to your idea now available is Supreme Commander. You might like to take a look at it - battles so huge that strategy actually comes into play for once.

As has been highlighted, your idea deviates too far from the Defcon formula to be termed a sequel or achieved in a mod. That doesn't necessarily mean it would make a bad game - i.e. the quality of a game with the mechanics you suggest isn't entirely in question - it just means that it isn't really reflective of the design ethic behind Defcon.
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Postby General Turgetson » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:44 am

yeah okay, I would ordinarily argue your point.....but I jsut don't care. Bert is right, I should jsut forget fighting with you guys and make my own game.

who knew it was that simple?
I learned to love the bomb....have you?
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Postby KingAl » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:48 am

Eh? I'm not attacking you, I'm merely making an observation. The game you suggest wouldn't be bad necessarily, just not Defcon.
One thing you've got to remember - not just on forums, but in life generally - is that 'you' and 'your ideas' are not equivalent. Any author, game designer etc. that you ask will tell you that you need to take a step back. If people shoot down your ideas, realise that it's those ideas, and not you, that they're attacking. Don't become too attached to anything.
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Re: Thank you

Postby xander » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:51 am

General Turgetson wrote:Oh i agree, it is best online, however Every guy I played was an A-hole. He would use lousy tactics to win. Stuff like fire all of his bomber nukes at one silo at a time until I was defenseless, I figured, the CPU plays far more realistically.

Wait... you think that the people you play online are assholes because they are better than you?! That's a new one...

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Postby General Turgetson » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:52 am

no not you king al lol.

it posted out of order.'

The reason I tried to change DEFCO ninstead of playing Supreme comamnder was: I LIKE THE COLD WAR!!

yes I know, i said earlier, i wasn't really angry at the people criticizing,m but at the people who were jsut being idiots.

anyway, it doesn't matter, I am making my own game.
I learned to love the bomb....have you?
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Postby General Turgetson » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:07 am

I take that back, people like you xander.

It wasn't he was better than me, it ws that he had no strategy, it was cheap. I don't know why I am still posting here.

King Al is okay

Bert the Turtle is okay

Xocrates is okay (Even if he disagrees lol)

Ace Rimmer is okay


everyone who nitpicked is a dick

and Xander is a Dick


sounds about right. Oka ythen, later y'all I is out.
I learned to love the bomb....have you?
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Postby xander » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:15 am

General Turgetson wrote:and Xander is a Dick

I may be a dick, but at least I can defend the arguments that I make, without calling other people names.

xander
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Postby mr_anonymous » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:20 am

xander wrote:
General Turgetson wrote:and Xander is a Dick

I may be a dick, but at least I can defend the arguments that I make, without calling other people names, arsewipe.

Fixed.
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Postby shinygerbil » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:29 am

mr_anonymous wrote:
xander wrote:
General Turgetson wrote:and Xander is a Dick

I may be a dick, but at least I can defend the arguments that I make, without calling other people names, arsewipe.

Fixed, cockface.


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KingAl
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Postby KingAl » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:30 am

I wish I could be just like shinygerbil. He's the coolest.
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Postby shinygerbil » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:32 am


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