low tech defcon

Ideas for expansions and improvements to Defcon

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zkl
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low tech defcon

Postby zkl » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:28 pm

i would really love to see a defcon version where u can turn off ALL opengl stuff so that it runs smoothly on every machine. i mean there must be a library allowing to easily draw 2d graphs in the way its done in defcon atm.... :roll:
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Postby Montyphy » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:31 pm

Surely if you turnt off ALL OpenGl stuff you would get a blank screen. ;)
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Postby zkl » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:46 pm

sure, but what i am missing is a pure 2 d mode..
i know many people having opengl problems or they are complaining why the game runs so slow. the game doesnt use real 3d effects at all so why opengl?

here at work i have my 1000 Mhz Intel Notebook and defcon runs at 2 frames or so, at the same time i can play QUAKE 3 Arena properly at 800*600!
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So use 2d graphics library

Postby ewanm » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:17 pm

Other graphics librarys could be used but it'll probably a major recode.
The other problem is lack of portability between platforms.
    Library ,No of dimensions,Platforms
    opengl,3D/2D,win/mac/linux
    DirectX,3D/2D,win
    SDL,2D,win/mac/linux (more of a sound kibrary)


There are more but I can't think of them now :idea:
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Postby NeoThermic » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:32 pm

Er, pure 2D mode? Well, if we look at the ~20,000 OpenGL calls per frame Defcon makes, we see that excluding the lobby, there's only calls to vertex2f, meaning that we are in 2D mode.

What helps here is the graphics card. If the notebook has something cheap and intergrated (and at 1GHz I would wager this is the case), then you won't get much from Defcon. My laptop's S3 card struggles with Defcon, and I've got the advantage of 200MHz extra CPU to deal with it.

It's just a fact that Defcon is deceptive in it's requirements.

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Postby elDiablo » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:01 pm

NeoThermic wrote:there's only calls to vertex2f, meaning that we are in 2D mode...


Erm, well, except for the fact that vertex2f is just a call to vertex4f in hiding. But yes! :D
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Postby NeoThermic » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:43 pm

elDiablo wrote:
NeoThermic wrote:there's only calls to vertex2f, meaning that we are in 2D mode...


Erm, well, except for the fact that vertex2f is just a call to vertex4f in hiding. But yes! :D


Plus the fact that gluOrtho2D is a glOrtho call with near = 0 and far = 1 ;)

But yes, in general, the map renders in 2D; OpenGL just works in 3D to do that for you.

(plus what the hell does one do with the 'w' axis? I've always left it at the default of 1, but I'm sure you have some magic about what you can do with it..?)

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Postby Svip » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:54 pm

I thought the reason was because OpenGL uses the GPU to draw, instead of using the CPU (as SDL does). Thus making the game much faster on systems with a GPU.

But admittingly, slower on older machines. Because it must force the CPU to draw it. But I might be all wrong.
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Postby AtomicPlayboy » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:22 am

zkl wrote:the game doesnt use real 3d effects at all so why opengl?


OpenGL and DX are both valid choices for 2d graphics, since PCs don't have sprite memory like the c=64 or consoles. Moving and smoothly scaling sprites and alpha blending are basically free if you're using either. Companies have been optimising their software implementations of OpenGL for 10 years, so you're not going to make a better sprite scaler or alpha blender than they have.
When there isn't a hardware device, both APIs allow fallback to a software rendering path. So, if the hardware isn't there, you can still draw, but you're using the software implementation of the API. This is not guaranteed to be faster than optimised assembler for your rendering, but it's VERY definitely faster than blending in GDI.
Take a look at 'Halo 0', the halo-themed platformer homebrew. It's all done in the most naive software rendering possible, which makes it's hardware requirements _higher than the original Halo_. (!!!)

Now, given all that, here is what is most likely the real reason:
Their previous games used it.
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Postby prophile » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:30 pm

NeoThermic wrote:Er, pure 2D mode? Well, if we look at the ~20,000 OpenGL calls per frame Defcon makes, we see that excluding the lobby, there's only calls to vertex2f, meaning that we are in 2D mode.

What helps here is the graphics card. If the notebook has something cheap and intergrated (and at 1GHz I would wager this is the case), then you won't get much from Defcon. My laptop's S3 card struggles with Defcon, and I've got the advantage of 200MHz extra CPU to deal with it.

It's just a fact that Defcon is deceptive in it's requirements.

NeoThermic


IV still haven't learned to use display lists ^^
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Postby frenchfrog » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:19 pm

prophile wrote:IV still haven't learned to use display lists ^^


They did, the renderer use display list all around, with the problems it incurs (like the occasional flushing).
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