Bug: No ceasefire, if Defection is turned off

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TheDan
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Bug: No ceasefire, if Defection is turned off

Postby TheDan » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:49 pm

Not sure if this was intended or not, but it is not possible to change ceasefire status if AllowDefection is set to false.

There are situations when I would like to give a player a ceasefire without allying (for stealth alliance purposes), & me and a few people at Defconmatch are playing with the possibility of disabling normal alliances (via AllowDefection = false), allowing manual control of ceasefires and radar sharing instead.
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DueAccident
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Postby DueAccident » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:58 pm

Well no defection basically means no sneaky business. Once the game has started, you are stuck with what you got, whether teams a ffa.
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xander
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Postby xander » Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:49 pm

This is not a bug. It may not be how you wish the game behaved, but it is not a bug. When defection is turned off, that means that you are on a team with your teammates until the bitter end. Sorry.

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Spacemonkey
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Re: Bug: No ceasefire, if Defection is turned off

Postby Spacemonkey » Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:57 pm

TheDan wrote:There are situations when I would like to give a player a ceasefire without allying (for stealth alliance purposes)


I fell for that once, turns out the guy who had a 'ceasefire' with me positioned all his ships just outside my radar range, then lunched a full scale attack on me.

But that was the first and last time I let that happen.
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Postby poorsod » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:54 pm

It confuses me the way allies can turn off ceasefire without you knowing and then attack you without defecting. I think alliance and ceasefire should be tied, unless anyone can put forward a case for them not to be.

EDIT: that was unclear. I can understand why you would want a ceasefire without an alliance, but I don't like the way you can have an alliance without a ceasefire. Turning off ceasefire should be an automatic defection.
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xander
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Postby xander » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:10 pm

poorsod wrote:It confuses me the way allies can turn off ceasefire without you knowing and then attack you without defecting. I think alliance and ceasefire should be tied, unless anyone can put forward a case for them not to be.

EDIT: that was unclear. I can understand why you would want a ceasefire without an alliance, but I don't like the way you can have an alliance without a ceasefire. Turning off ceasefire should be an automatic defection.

You have an ally. You do not trust said ally. You turn off ceasefire, and eliminate his units when they cross into your airspace, but still force him to suck down collateral if he nukes you. It is also a sneaky way to take out allied ships with your subs. Think of it this way -- in real life, an alliance is a mutal kind of thing -- both parties agree to ally. The alliance can be broken when one person decides to leave, or the other person decides to kick them out. However, in real life, you might attack an "ally" and make it look like an "enemy" did it in order to confuse them, or get them to attack the "enemy." Same thing works in Defcon. i.e. Holy shit! Russia just nuked your silo! You'd better go get him!

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Mighty Santa
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Postby Mighty Santa » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:59 pm

Its actually a good thing.

In real life, its not like an allie - who is about to backstab you, has to send a message 'Ceasefire over'.

Rule'1: Always watch what your allies are doing.
Rule'2: So long as your allie has nukes...you have a problem.

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CptDarknuggets
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Postby CptDarknuggets » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:13 am

500mhz bahaha what does it run on coal?
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Postby shinygerbil » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:21 am

CptDarknuggets wrote:500mhz bahaha what does it run on coal?


Without the comma, the impact (and meaning) of that sentence is truly non-existent.

It also looks like you're talking about bananas.
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DueAccident
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Postby DueAccident » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:37 am

Made me chuckle though. :D
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Postby supam » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:14 am

shinygerbil wrote:
CptDarknuggets wrote:500mhz bahaha what does it run on coal?


Without the comma, the impact (and meaning) of that sentence is truly non-existent.

It also looks like you're talking about bananas.


It's a forum, not an English exam. Comments are informal. Cut people some slack.
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Postby The Wombat » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:17 am

I agree with poster.

I wish it was customizable no matter what teams are or defection options are too:

-set cease fire
-broadcast radar
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Mighty Santa
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Postby Mighty Santa » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:45 am

CptDarknuggets wrote:500mhz bahaha what does it run on coal?


OT I know...but..

Main PC burnt out, now running on a 500mhz pc from 2000. Am waiting to upgrade with new parts, which will even include a new graphics card. Until then, no games, just the forum.

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Postby Spacemonkey » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:55 am

I usually have ceasefire off, many times my 'allies' park thier subs near my coast, I like to get rid of them.
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Postby TheDan » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:55 pm

Ok, the general consensus appears to be that people don't consider this a bug, in which case I apologise for listing it as such (admittedly, I did do it mostly to guarantee that I would get some community feedback, even if it was only negative)

However, I still believe that ceasefire possibility should be seperated from the AllowDefection as a game option (the same way that radar sharing can be seperated from alliance options), since it would be nice to perform a coordinated attack with non-allies without accidentally shooting them down in the process. Or maybe if AllowDefection is false, then ceasefires should be locked on with allies, but still toggle-able for non-allies.

People seem kindof jaded by the fact that they've been stung by someone else not abiding to a ceasefire, or themselves not giving a ceasefire when requested. This is ofcourse a risk you take, but I have had several games when I've successfully had a ceasefire with a non-ally for the purpose of attacking a third player (or sometimes given a ceasefire to non-allies, so that they can attack my own allies more successfully).

Generally, ceasefires only work between non-allies if they both present an equal threat to eachother, but also are under threat by a more powerful player. If you expect a ceasefire from another player, when you've already lost most of your units and nukes, then he's being quite generous if he gives it to you for even a short period of time.

(Substitute 'he' with 'he/she', you know what I mean)

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