Long-term DefCon

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JavaScrybe
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Long-term DefCon

Postby JavaScrybe » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:21 pm

I have a suggestion, more of a new "game mode". Please note that maybe it's already doable right now.

I really like the Office Mode, but what would be very very interesting is a "almost long term" mode that I could play with my friends that have almost no time to play games. A bit like Diplomacy over e-mail.

Basics:
- Having Defcons measured in Days (or more, but you get the idea).

Nice to haves:
- Having the server keep the game alive without client connexion (i.e. if a player crashes, he only has to login again and pickup from there).
- Sending what's happening by e-mail.


Anyways, if there was a way to mod this, I'd be willing to do it.
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Postby xander » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:48 pm

In some ways, I really like the idea. I like the idea of a game that goes on for several days. It would be a bit hard to make it work properly, I think, for several reasons, though none of them are insurmountable. First off, the game would have to be played on a really big map (say world size = 400 or more). This means more units, smaller engadgement ranges, &c., but also slows most computers to a halt. Second, what do you do about sleep time? People have to sleep at some point, and there are always things going on in Defcon. Also, what do you mean "sending what's happening by e-mail?" Do you mean that the server would inform you of changes via email, or that you could send orders via email?

At any rate, I think it is a really good idea, but would require a rather large overhaul of the Defcon engine. I don't see it happening now, but it sounds like a great source CD idea, when and if a source CD is ever released.

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Postby JavaScrybe » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:00 pm

xander wrote:In some ways, I really like the idea. I like the idea of a game that goes on for several days. It would be a bit hard to make it work properly, I think, for several reasons, though none of them are insurmountable. First off, the game would have to be played on a really big map (say world size = 400 or more). This means more units, smaller engadgement ranges, &c., but also slows most computers to a halt. Second, what do you do about sleep time? People have to sleep at some point, and there are always things going on in Defcon. Also, what do you mean "sending what's happening by e-mail?" Do you mean that the server would inform you of changes via email, or that you could send orders via email?

At any rate, I think it is a really good idea, but would require a rather large overhaul of the Defcon engine. I don't see it happening now, but it sounds like a great source CD idea, when and if a source CD is ever released.

xander

Glad to see I'm not the only one interested by this. :)

Try Diplomacy Play-By-Email, and you'll see exactly what I mean. :D

Keep the same amount of cities, nukes and such. Only make Defcons longer. I think the only thing needed would be a way to tweak the duration of the game (and individual Defcons). For instance, you might want to say that Defcons happen at 18:00 GMT every night, so people at least know when to check, and they'll probably all be online at that time.

Of course, people have to sleep, but at that speed, ordering fleets before going to bed will probably mean you'll have to check on them in the morning :).

And yes, timing your fleet orders for an attack in the middle of the night is a valid strategy, if a bit sneaky.

Imagine: "You have a nuke on its way, hitting one of your cities in 6 hours. Are you ready to talk Alliance?" :)

As for e-mail, it's to avoid things like not knowing your battlecruiser fleet was ambushed in the middle of the night (but even then, that could be funny... "WHERE IS MY FLEET"?!?).
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Postby xander » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:15 pm

Again, I like the idea of long, drawn out games, but think that it really wouldn't work without some major tweaking to the Defcon engine. Defcon happens in constant time (whether you are playing at real time or 20x, Defcon is always doing something), while Diplomacy is turn based. In a game of Diplomacy, you don't gain an advantage by staying up for 48 hours straight. In a game of Defcon, that might be possible. Again, as an office mode player, I like the idea of a gradually increasing global nuclear crisis played out over several days (or even weeks). I would love to help put something like that together, I just don't think that Defcon, in its current form, is really amenable to such a game.

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Postby furtim » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:51 pm

Two things might make this possible. The first is to extend, as the OP says, each DEFCON level to a whole day, to allow plenty of time for diplomacy between levels. The second would be a kind of confirmation for DEFCON levels, or at least for key levels like DEFCONs 3 and 1. All the players would have to approve the switch, maybe within a window. So you don't wake up in the morning to realise you've missed DEFCON 1 and the enemy nuked all your cities right out the gate. In short, make an artificial turn at a few key points.

What I'm really imagining here is that most of the game goes slowly, then you play out DEFCON 1 across a similar time scale as Office Mode now.

It's a really intriguing idea, but unfortunately the mechanics are not possible in current Defcon nor reasonable to be worked out by a bunch of casual types on a forum. But it's something to consider for Defcon 2, maybe. :P
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Postby hellcatv » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:22 pm

ya it would probably be a fairly straightforward source-CD patch if you didn't bother to worry about uptime (or if the devels implemented saving in an upcoming patch--unlikely of course)
basically what you could do is have a schedule for turns (much like diplomacy)... and have the time compression ramp up near the turn times...
i.e.
1:10 overnight...then it would go to 1:5 near when the turn is "due" then 1:1 and 2:1 (players could go back to 1:1 during that time to micro)
so basically you could make it so everyone has to meet up to play some time between 5-6pm (and maybe a web interface to change the turn schedule in case someone can't make it that day)
then in the off times when it's 1:10 or 1:100 you could send out e-mails organizing diplomatic sort of stategy :-P

so basically the only thing we'd need for this to be *possible* would be a way to schedule the time compression and a way to have a time compression less than 1:1 (i.e. slow down time)
the thing we'd need for it to be practical is a way to checkpoint gamestate in case a neutron flips a bit (especially in the case of a nuclear incident ;-) )
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Postby JavaScrybe » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:22 pm

furtim wrote:Two things might make this possible. The first is to extend, as the OP says, each DEFCON level to a whole day, to allow plenty of time for diplomacy between levels. The second would be a kind of confirmation for DEFCON levels, or at least for key levels like DEFCONs 3 and 1. All the players would have to approve the switch, maybe within a window. So you don't wake up in the morning to realise you've missed DEFCON 1 and the enemy nuked all your cities right out the gate. In short, make an artificial turn at a few key points.

What I'm really imagining here is that most of the game goes slowly, then you play out DEFCON 1 across a similar time scale as Office Mode now.

It's a really intriguing idea, but unfortunately the mechanics are not possible in current Defcon nor reasonable to be worked out by a bunch of casual types on a forum. But it's something to consider for Defcon 2, maybe. :P

You get the idea. :D With really long periods of time though, you have plenty to activate/deactivate nukes or negotiate, so you could not really be nuked into oblivion without any prior knowledge of it. I have not calculated this, but I'm estimating a nuke flight could take up to 12 hours.

But, I'm thinking, at the basic level this could probably be an additionnal game mode named "DiploCon" or something like that, with Defcons in 24-hour periods. All my friends are in the same timezone, so it would probably be "Defcons are at 1900 sharp: be there" :)

I'd really like this to happen :D
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Postby Spacemonkey » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:49 pm

The CPU could take over while players are asleep, and it could be set to aggressive or defensive modes, it wouldn't be as good as a human player, and at least it would take care of your forces while you're away.
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Postby blackwhitehawk » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:56 pm

this sounds like it would add a lot more stargicie to the game.
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Postby Skax459 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:12 am

blackwhitehawk wrote:this sounds like it would add a lot more stargicie to the game.


Fiirst of all: what are you saying? "stargicie"? Strategy? Stratigic? Stargazers?
Secondly, what if somebody left? Would they be replaced by an AI opponent, if, for an extreme example, they died? After...24 hours of inactivity they got replaced by AI, someone could jump in and replace the AI.
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Postby blackwhitehawk » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:01 am

Skax459 wrote:
blackwhitehawk wrote:this sounds like it would add a lot more stargicie to the game.


Fiirst of all: what are you saying? "stargicie"? Strategy? Stratigic? Stargazers?
Secondly, what if somebody left? Would they be replaced by an AI opponent, if, for an extreme example, they died? After...24 hours of inactivity they got replaced by AI, someone could jump in and replace the AI.


strategy 8) you never know what longer games would do. you could do something like have 3 people command one place that way there can be more active at a time.
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Postby JavaScrybe » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:17 am

Skax459 wrote:
blackwhitehawk wrote:this sounds like it would add a lot more stargicie to the game.


Fiirst of all: what are you saying? "stargicie"? Strategy? Stratigic? Stargazers?
Secondly, what if somebody left? Would they be replaced by an AI opponent, if, for an extreme example, they died? After...24 hours of inactivity they got replaced by AI, someone could jump in and replace the AI.

I'd say he dies.

But, like I was mentioning, what would be really cool is the ability for the game to persist when players logoff. If the same player logs in again, he picks up where he left. That would make it possible for the player to login from different places (work, home, etc.) :)

That would be great.
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Postby Redemption042 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:41 am

I would just like to say that I really like this idea and would enjoy playing such a game.
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Postby LarsMB » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:36 pm

A Defcon-version of vgaplanets. Word. ;-)

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