[MOD] 1984: Defcon the Orwellian Way

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xander
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Postby xander » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:02 pm

shinygerbil wrote:Ssshhhh. ;)


xander, after a quick playtest, Oceania is pretty hard to defend indeed; it would make sense to add more units by default, as all the territories are bigger (with the possible exception of Eastasia.) Interestingly, the Eastasia, the smallest territory, lost heavily; that probably has more to do with AI than anything else, though.

Perhaps require that the game be played without defection, and put two or three players in Oceania, one in Eastasia, and one in Eurasia? This would require that the host set it up properly, but it could work -- say a North American player, an Australian player, and an African/South American player. Of course, that would give the advantage to Oceania.

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Postby zach » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:40 pm

xander wrote:Of course, that would give the advantage to Oceania.
Wouldn't this be perfectly in line with 1984? However, if doing this, then one would have to consider the 'tendency' of Oceania to ally with Eastasia/Eurasia ... Of course, they've always been allied with Eastasia/Eurasia, and enemies with Eurasia/Eastasia :roll:

Complicated matter indeed.
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Postby xander » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:13 pm

zanzer7 wrote:
xander wrote:Of course, that would give the advantage to Oceania.
Wouldn't this be perfectly in line with 1984? However, if doing this, then one would have to consider the 'tendency' of Oceania to ally with Eastasia/Eurasia ... Of course, they've always been allied with Eastasia/Eurasia, and enemies with Eurasia/Eastasia :roll:

Complicated matter indeed.

Oh, it would follow the book perfectly, but it makes the game difficult to play :)

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Postby Kuth » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:07 am

tChr wrote:But in Orwell's 1984, it's pretty clearly stated that the war wasn't meant to be won, but just to be fought; wouldn't this defy the concept of DEFCON, which turns out into an all-out nuclear exchange in a matter of hours? And besides, were ICBMs even invented in Orwell's dystopia?


Have you read the epiloge in the book? I don't think it'll spoil anything...

The whole essay on newspeak is written in post-Ingsoc society. "Would have been standard by" is one line I remember being pointed out to me by my english teacher when reading it. So yes, ingsoc falls...somehow...

nuclear war?

Even if it isn't nuclear, it's still throwing around gigantic bombs/ordinance in a big conflict that finally explodes.

If you give me some ideas, maybe I can help you with individual graphics...
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Postby tChr » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:26 am

Also, shouldn't south India be a part of Oceania? Or, the entire India a disputed territory?
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Postby shinygerbil » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:06 pm

Checking the map kindly supplied by Wikipedia, most of India is part f Eastasia, but south India is in dispute.

I was thinking of adding the disputed area as another territory; although this doesn't really fit with the book, it might fix some gameplay problems.

Kuth, your help would be greatly appreciated - if anyone wants to put forward suggestions and ideas, they are more than welcome. :) I was thinking of having buildings and units in a style vaguely inspired by steampunk (as they call it) themes (I'm thinking something like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, or something like that, as I really like the graphical style); I'll try and produce some mock-ups today, but don't hesitate to try and make your own, as I'm not a wizard with graphics ;)

I'm organising some webhosting (i.e. www.shinygerbil.co.uk :D ) which should be up within the next 24 hours, so then I can stick what exists of the mod up for people to try (at least, the basic territory files, so we can test the gameplay balance.)

Thanks for all the tips, guys!

EDIT: First battleship mockup. What do you guys think?

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Postby zach » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:08 pm

How about making the disputed area belong to both Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia?

That way, there should be nearly constant battles there ~ Just a thought, might only work in theory ...
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Postby shinygerbil » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:15 pm

It's tempting, but it would probably turn the game into a nightmare. I'll give it a go, and see what happens. (I believe it's possible within the game's mechanics, though.)

Airbase:

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Postby shinygerbil » Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:00 pm

*sigh* Remorseless bump:

New screenshot, with many mock-ups of various things. Will get onto looking at territories now :)

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Postby Kuth » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:23 pm

well...I personally have several understandings of 1984.

The first is most of the aesthetics come out of a 1980s science fiction story (logan's run, space 1999, that kind of thing), with technology being very high but only restricted to the upper elites (in oceania). National armies would use really glossy tech, and would be as oppressive as their governments.

The second is what the 1984 movie of 1984 portrays- a run-down universe with low levels of tech and very crude mechanisms... not steampunk at all I'm afraid.

The icons look great though. If you want maybe I can throw together some ideas I have for units... or if you want me to patch together a special interface I can prolly get it done in the span of a week.
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Postby VANGUARD » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:04 pm

Well, there's evidence that nukes do exist, as uh... I forgot the city, but Winston remembers going down into a nuclear bunker sometime in the early 50s (Read the book [again] about six months ago, but I still can't fully remember) so we can assume that Airstrip One was the victim of osme sort of nuclear attack.

I like it, but I don't understand the battleship sprite. Whta isit meant to be?
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Postby tChr » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:07 pm

shinygerbil wrote:*sigh* Remorseless bump:

New screenshot, with many mock-ups of various things. Will get onto looking at territories now :)

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Looks doubleplusgood! Keep up the good work :D
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Postby shinygerbil » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:07 pm

I sort of extrapolated my ideas from the "novel-writing machines" they have in Minitrue, which are, as far as I know, mechanical contraptions, yet seem to have the characteristics of "computers". I guess I just like steampunk. ;)

I'd be very interested to see any ideas you have - my ideas are simply mockups and highly subject to change.

I imagined a fairly run-down universe, but one ruled by technology (although, of course, not for the proles). maybe something like the old Final Fantasy 6 for the SNES. I'd quite like to throw a sort of sepia-toned, rusty brown theme over it all, but again many people's interpretations of the book are different, so it's all open to ideas at the moment :)
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Postby VANGUARD » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:07 pm

Just looking at wiki...
Although, according to Goldstein's book, hundreds of atomic bombs were dropped on cities during the 1950s, the three powers no longer use them, as they would upset the balance of power... The book also details an Oceanian strategy to attack enemy cities with atomic-tipped rocket bombs prior to a full-scale invasion, but quickly dismisses this plan as both infeasible and contrary to the purpose of the war.

Nukes certainly did exist, but whether they had ICBMs.. *shrug*.
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Postby shinygerbil » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:40 pm

VANGUARD wrote:I like it, but I don't understand the battleship sprite. Whta isit meant to be?


Well, it was the first one I made, so it's more an experimental style than anything else; I'll probably redo it tomorrow. It probably needs more guns...That'll solve everything ;)

Having just gone back through the book (and, I admit, the Wiki article,) I surmise that technology available to them is not dissimilar to that of World War II technology (which is not hard to realise, considering when the book was written); but I don't want to make a WWII mod. So what I'm really doing isn't 1984, but based upon it, I guess. Maybe incorporating V for Vendetta's slightly more advanced style.

If I didn't want suggestions, I would have made this mod without telling anybody, and released it, and you'd have all gone "this is crap." I just think it's too good an idea to pass up on :)

Meanwhile, I've added the disputed territory as a fourth playable territory, and I'll also try out the idea of making it part of all three major powers, to see how that works out. Although I imagine there will just be a lot of collateral damage ;)

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