Spectacular Video Card Crash

Technical Support for all Defcon related issues

Moderator: Defcon moderators

hamburerfranz
level0
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:41 pm

Postby hamburerfranz » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:37 pm

xander wrote:
hamburerfranz wrote:If this thread is getting attention, why not come out and say so?
He did.


Right, bookended by "hey this isn't really a big problem" and "what do you want us to do about it?" Next time a "hi I'm dbag steve from IV and we're taking a look" would be a lot easier to stomach. Excellent customer service. How's that for invective?


hamburerfranz wrote:How about a "Sorry folks, that sucks. We'll think about it some and in the meantime let others know of the risk."


xander wrote:What risk? You have yet to provide any evidence that Defcon or IV are at fault.


Xander, are you out of your mind? People are posting on this thread saying, essentially: "When I play defcon my computer breaks. When I play defcon my card tests lower. I can play other games fine." That constitutes risk. You don't really need me to link you to the m-w.com definition of risk, do you?


xander wrote:In fact, the weight of evidence is exactly the opposite. Based upon the number of people that are playing with identical video cards to the ones that are having problems, it looks like the video cards that are having trouble have other problems. Have you tried what was suggested, i.e. reinstalling the drivers, or trying the card in another machine? Again, 5 out of more than 4,000 does not constitute risk. That is less than 1/8th of one percent, and is probably more easily accounted for by failure of the video card through some other means. That's basic prob & stats.


Don't lecture me on "basic prob & stats." What you're describing is a small risk, but not zero risk. This thread is barely a week old. All 4,000 people with ati cards are on this board posting? Impressive.


hamburerfranz wrote:Introversion: It's Probably Your Fault. Now Quit Bothering Us.

xander wrote:No, what he said is that the problem is being looked into, but that there is not a lot that he can do as he isn't affected by it. What do you want him to do? He can't reproduce the problem. He doesn't know what the problem is. You aren't helping, as you, appearantly, have not tried to do what he asked you to. Instead, you are hurling invective. That doesn't help anyone, you or IV.



What he said was that nothing could be done. "What would you expect us to do?" I read this as "dunno. piss off." I'm not putting my hardware on the line again.

I never "demanded" any kind of support. My first post was just to confirm that yes, my system had experienced a spectacular crash while playing defcon. If these are the people running the show, it's pretty obvious no support is on the horizon for us.

What a horrible experience with IV this has been.
Steven
level2
level2
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:16 am
Contact:

Postby Steven » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:45 pm

Zarkow wrote:Yes, but neither of them are tagged as IV nor 'one of the tree' in credits.

Working close != giving official statements. :D

I know perfectly who each and everyone are, but I disagree that any of their posts should be refered to as a 'Official Statements by IV'.

Heck, even I agree to that. I don't speak for IV as a whole.
User avatar
MrBunsy
level5
level5
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:40 pm
Location: Southampton
Contact:

Postby MrBunsy » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:59 pm

hambugerfranz wrote:Xander, are you out of your mind? People are posting on this thread saying, essentially: "When I play defcon my computer breaks. When I play defcon my card tests lower. I can play other games fine." That constitutes risk. You don't really need me to link you to the m-w.com definition of risk, do you?
That's not a good reason to fault Defcon though, it is entirely possible that everyone who is experiencing this problem has something else at fault, a driver setting or another peice of hardware or software. Anything. Several people reporting the same problem in a support forum doesn't nesicarily mean that Defcon is at fault, is what I'm saying.

Has any actually tried emailing introversion, these forums are very busy at the moment and an email would be a much surer way to make sure your introversion offical fella knows about the problem.
User avatar
NeoThermic
Introversion Staff
Introversion Staff
Posts: 6254
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 10:55 am
Location: ::1
Contact:

Postby NeoThermic » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:33 pm

hamburerfranz wrote:Don't lecture me on "basic prob & stats." What you're describing is a small risk, but not zero risk. This thread is barely a week old. All 4,000 people with ati cards are on this board posting? Impressive.


This is exactly the point that we are making though. This thread doesn't have 4,000 replies in it because of the fact that the problem isn't as widespread as you think it is. If it affected every ATi 9000 series card, then we would be hearing about it every 20 seconds. Hell, as noted, 25 beta testers had ATi cards and they were fine with Defcon, so the problem is that rare.

NeoThermic
Steven
level2
level2
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:16 am
Contact:

Postby Steven » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:36 pm

MrBunsy wrote:Has any actually tried emailing introversion, these forums are very busy at the moment and an email would be a much surer way to make sure your introversion offical fella knows about the problem.


I've alerted John about this thread.
User avatar
xander
level5
level5
Posts: 16869
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Highland, CA, USA
Contact:

Postby xander » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:57 pm

hamburerfranz wrote:Xander, are you out of your mind? People are posting on this thread saying, essentially: "When I play defcon my computer breaks. When I play defcon my card tests lower. I can play other games fine." That constitutes risk. You don't really need me to link you to the m-w.com definition of risk, do you?

Would you like me to photocopy you some graduate level statistic texts that define risk? I do, in fact, know what I am talking about. The "risk" that you describe probably less than 1 in 1,000, and I have yet to see any conclusive evidence that this rate is higher than the background failure rate of ATi cards. I could state that correlation does not indicate causation, but you have yet to even demonstrate correlation.

hamburerfranz wrote:Don't lecture me on "basic prob & stats." What you're describing is a small risk, but not zero risk. This thread is barely a week old. All 4,000 people with ati cards are on this board posting? Impressive.

No. What is being described is a four or five ATi cards that are not functioning properly. This could be related to Defcon, or it could be coincidence.

hamburerfranz wrote:What he said was that nothing could be done. "What would you expect us to do?" I read this as "dunno. piss off." I'm not putting my hardware on the line again.

No, he said "What would you expect us to do?" just like you quoted. What do you expect him to do? I expect him to do his best to track down this possible bug, and apply any fixes to a future patch. I would even go so far as to say that this is exactly what he is doing. Do you want something else?

hamburerfranz wrote:I never "demanded" any kind of support. My first post was just to confirm that yes, my system had experienced a spectacular crash while playing defcon. If these are the people running the show, it's pretty obvious no support is on the horizon for us.

Now you are just being disingenuous and melodramatic.

xander
Gloeing Freak
level1
level1
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:03 pm

Postby Gloeing Freak » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:23 am

MrBunsy wrote:
hambugerfranz wrote:
Has any actually tried emailing introversion, these forums are very busy at the moment and an email would be a much surer way to make sure your introversion offical fella knows about the problem.


I tried to, but there is not a selection for Defcon in the contact us page. So I sent it to the Darwinia site with ATTN: Defcon staff on the top.

My card is still broken. I started to contact ATI about the card, but i'ts so much damn work. I filled out about a page of system specs but then I got the urge to play some more defcon. SO I stayed up till 3 am and never finished the support ticket. DAMN YOU DEFCON!!!!

Since its so much work, I decided to con dell into sending me a new card, i'm outta warrenty but I'm good at milking a corporation..

-------------------------------------------

And the way steven responded to the post would be the same way I would respond to someone talking down on my freinds/coworkers...

But as a business owner myself, I would never post in anger speaking for my company. Bad Business
Steven
level2
level2
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:16 am
Contact:

Postby Steven » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:32 am

Gloeing Freak wrote:And the way steven responded to the post would be the same way I would respond to someone talking down on my freinds/coworkers...

But as a business owner myself, I would never post in anger speaking for my company. Bad Business

I didn't speak in anger. The problems you are experiencing aren't our responsibility. We aren't liable for any damage (as per licensing agreement), we don't have any control of what your hardware decides to do, and we don't have control of how you decide to behave about the problem.

If this was a software bug (which it's clearly not, because nobody other than the 5 or so in this thread can produce it), we would be able to debug it and write a patch. Other than trying to package nVIDIA cards with the game (not happening), we don't have any way to solve the problem.

If I had some solutions for the problem, I'd offer them, but I honestly don't see anything that we can do.

NeoThermic will (hopefully) be getting Kazz' ATi card in the mail and be able to reproduce and help debug the problem. Until then, please be patient.
User avatar
Kazz
level1
level1
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:54 am
Contact:

Postby Kazz » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:58 am

Yeah, it should be in the post on Monday.

I think some of the people who are experiencing problems are missing the point of this thread. All evidence that we currently have seems to show that some people who run Defcon with an ATI Radeon 9600 or 9800 card experience crashes, and of those, a few report degrading performance in other programs.

I personally lost a $225 video card. But I'm not angry, especially not at IV. I'm trying to fix the problem for others. I want to know why my ATI card broke. The evidence says that it might have been Defcon, but our body of evidence is tiny, flawed, and circumstantial. It is certainly no basis for getting pissed at IV.

Defcon is innocent until proven guilty. I want to be wrong. I want this problem to have been something else. Hell, I already know it will never be Defcon's fault. As I said before, I'm never buying another ATI card.
pcasts
level1
level1
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:51 pm
Location: Italy
Contact:

Postby pcasts » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:02 pm

pcasts wrote:Hey mates!
Maybe i've a clue of what is happening. I think that video card is not the only responsable.
I noticed, and i ask u to do the same, that in task manager cpu usage is 100%.
But the most important thing is that defcon.exe continue eating memory.
Here it come at 1gb + 230mb and it was continuing to go up.
I begin to think that the crash is due to a memory shortage...
In my case the motherboard overclocks automatically the cpu if it needs higher speed.
Because the 100% usage of the cpu the overcloking after 20-30 mins begin to be eccessive.
I noticed that my athlon 64 3800+ starts normally at 2400 mhz. After 15 mins because of defcon hungry it arrive at 2630!!!
Maybe the problem is also memory or cpu related?


Is there someone who's experiencing same problem? Is there anyone who verified?

Kazz wrote:I think some of the people who are experiencing problems are missing the point of this thread. All evidence that we currently have seems to show that some people who run Defcon with an ATI Radeon 9600 or 9800 card experience crashes, and of those, a few report degrading performance in other programs.


Please remember my card too :) I've got an ati x800XT


These are interesting threads... THe problems of these guys could be similar to our problems.

http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon ... d5643b5849

http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon ... d5643b5849

http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon ... d5643b5849

http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon ... d5643b5849

http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon ... d5643b5849
vitozzo
level1
level1
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:37 am
Location: london

Postby vitozzo » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:04 pm

My card is a ati x800 gto, it worked fine with everything else and i never had a problem, and yet Defcon doesn't seem to want to run on my system.
I have one more thing to say: has anyone who has got a problem with Defcon actually published a post on this forum? I don't think so. Said that, i don't think DEfcon has no fault at all. Just because Introversion made it and everybody loves this guys that doesn't mean that tehy don't make mistake. I remember that with Darwinia thay also experienced some problems. I just hope that we all have soon a patch for this game.
madsniper
level1
level1
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:36 am

Postby madsniper » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:45 am

I have done the general public a favor by posting on several other fourmsites I'm on to be warned if they have an ATi 9000 + series card that they play DEFCON at their OWN RISK. And of the reprocussions that could happen if they do play. I see this as a huge issue.
Zarkow
level4
level4
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:54 pm
Contact:

Postby Zarkow » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:27 am

Running around and yelling "FIRE!" isn't helpfull.
LutjeKabal
level1
level1
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:32 pm

Postby LutjeKabal » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:40 pm

I also have a disturbing problem with ATI Radeon RX800XT 256 MB. It makes a constant "buzz" sound when im playing Defcon and Darwinia..
I also found out that it does make that sound when im in Catalyst Control Center looking at that display of that car driving while I config 3D(anti-aliasing and so on). This is strange, and im pretty sure that its not the fan, and it doesnt happen when I play Doom 3 or Warhammer Dawn of War or Silent Hunter 3... :|
PhantomTa2
level2
level2
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:17 pm

Postby PhantomTa2 » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:05 pm

.............plays fine with my 9800XT.........not a problem at all

Return to “Windows Troubleshooting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests