Triangulation

In-depth tactical discussion on how to lose the least

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Triangulation

Postby px320 » Thu May 19, 2011 3:06 pm

The only person I've played or seen play this strategy is MrMot. It was quite a shock when he did it to me (bastard :mrgreen: ), and it seems he is still the leading proponent.

I also saw him do it to Zorro's Dog (EU) in a tourney match - MrMot (Africa) sacrificed an airbase at Cairo in order to send fighters deep into Europe to trace the AA fire. He then got Schubdeuse (SA) to launch on target dots on the wb. They hit 5 silos but still managed to lose - and much of this could be blamed on Mot spending his time triangulating rather than paying attention to the naval battle - where he was whipped.
http://sfcon.demoszenen.de/dcrec/2011-0 ... _21.21.zip

For those who might not know - the concept of triangulation is to use the wb to trace the AA fire lines backwards. Taken from several angles, the position of silos can be accurately determined by the points at there these lines intersect. I've tried it with limited success. The silos ideally need to be fairly accessible to fighters- as in the case of the tight space of EUs. The hardest part is drawing straight lines on the wb. There is a method - click and hold, then use the arrow keys - but it's tricky to use and not suited to this use, which requires tracing a moving target.

As this method catches-on it could become an essential part of strategy for which defenses must evolve. It certainly takes Defcon to new levels of truculence. Whether this is good or bad is moot - it is a reality that must be dealt with.

It seems to me that EU has no viable defence in this scenario, as AA fire is automatic until def1, when silos can be open. That's plenty of time to triangulate. The only option I could see was to immediatley counter-attack - but in this case you are on the back-foot and leaving yourself open to bomber /sub strikes. Not ideal.

What's your experience of this technique? Do you do it? Who have you played that uses it? Have you come-up with defenses other than counter-attack?
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Postby Mrmot » Thu May 19, 2011 3:48 pm

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Close this thread. There is no need to talk about it. Secret is simple: there are bastard specs who mail me screenshoot so we can kill silos blindly. That's all.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Postby px320 » Thu May 19, 2011 4:07 pm

Mrmot wrote::mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Close this thread. There is no need to talk about it. Secret is simple: there are bastard specs who mail me screenshoot so we can kill silos blindly. That's all.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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Postby Zorotama » Thu May 19, 2011 4:10 pm

Just to be accurate. Silos triangulation is an old strategy. Mot surely does that very well, but don't forget that the first person who did that (and explained that in the forum) was Ender. One time this strategy was called "Ender tactic". Without memory there is no future..
Last edited by Zorotama on Thu May 19, 2011 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mrmot » Thu May 19, 2011 4:13 pm

px320 wrote:
Mrmot wrote::mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Close this thread. There is no need to talk about it. Secret is simple: there are bastard specs who mail me screenshoot so we can kill silos blindly. That's all.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Image


:mrgreen:
Of course not. I just do not want you talk about this because if you do people will find solution how to defend. Zoro even asked to disable aa fire to prevent bastard blindly attacks some day ago.

:mrgreen:
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Postby Mrmot » Thu May 19, 2011 4:16 pm

Zorotama wrote:Just to be accurate. Silos triangulation is an old strategy. Mot surely does that very well, but don't forget that the first person who did that (and explained that in the forum) was Ender. One time this strategy was called "Ender tactic". Without memory there is no future..


Well, never heard about Ender. It was senator who applied it some tourney and i just calibrated it.
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Postby Zorotama » Thu May 19, 2011 4:16 pm

Just to be accurate. Silos triangulation is an old strategy. Mot surely does that very well, but don't forget that the first person who did that (and explained that in the forum) was Ender. One time this strategy was called "Ender tactic". Without memory there is no future..


@mot: Hahah...I think it was a good idea, and the past servers gave that possibility. Anyway don't be wormy again, and recognize who opened your eyes about triangulation...I remember the first time that you said "WOW" with your big mouth open.. :wink:
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Postby Zorotama » Thu May 19, 2011 4:17 pm

Mrmot wrote:
Zorotama wrote:Just to be accurate. Silos triangulation is an old strategy. Mot surely does that very well, but don't forget that the first person who did that (and explained that in the forum) was Ender. One time this strategy was called "Ender tactic". Without memory there is no future..


Well, never heard about Ender. It was senator who applied it some tourney and i just calibrated it.


That's why you have no future
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Postby Zorotama » Thu May 19, 2011 4:20 pm

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Postby px320 » Thu May 19, 2011 4:30 pm

Thanks Zorotoma - I stand corrected, though I never claimed Mot was the first.

But regardless of history, it's curious that it is not used by more more players, and I was unable to find much discussion on how to mount a reasonable defense, hence my original post asking for experiences.


Mrmot wrote: :mrgreen:
Of course not. I just do not want you talk about this because if you do people will find solution how to defend. Zoro even asked to disable aa fire to prevent bastard blindly attacks some day ago.
:mrgreen:


:P
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Postby Mrmot » Thu May 19, 2011 4:33 pm

Zorotama wrote:http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon/viewtopic.php?t=5191&highlight=ender

noob :lol:


Noob, i use different approach. Nothing to do with this. And it works better then enders method because with 3 fighter at maximum i will have 5 of your silos 100%.
I can reveal you secret but after that i have to shoot you.
:mrgreen:
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Postby Zorotama » Thu May 19, 2011 4:35 pm

px320 wrote:Thanks Zorotoma - I stand corrected, though I never claimed Mot was the first.

But regardless of history, it's curious that it is not used by more more players, and I was unable to find much discussion on how to mount a reasonable defense, hence my original post asking for experiences.


Mrmot wrote: :mrgreen:
Of course not. I just do not want you talk about this because if you do people will find solution how to defend. Zoro even asked to disable aa fire to prevent bastard blindly attacks some day ago.
:mrgreen:


:P


Ya, I said that just to be accurate about the history. And just to show the difference between a master and a noob. A master finds new ways and share them with all. A noob snatches the trick and doesnt share it with anyone. I know, I know..I love him. But he's a noob.
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Postby Schubdüse » Thu May 19, 2011 4:37 pm

:mrgreen:
I just would like to add, that you are all wrong. Mrmot doesn't TRIangulate.
And of course, triangulation is indeed a very old tactic. But it's very time consuming.

BTW, there could be a weaknees in Mrmot's method. We need to talk about it , brat.
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Postby Zorotama » Thu May 19, 2011 4:37 pm

Mrmot wrote:
Zorotama wrote:http://forums.introversion.co.uk/defcon/viewtopic.php?t=5191&highlight=ender

noob :lol:


Noob, i use different approach. Nothing to do with this. And it works better then enders method because with 3 fighter at maximum i will have 5 of your silos 100%.
I can reveal you secret but after that i have to shoot you.
:mrgreen:


Nah nah mot, you can't say your studid novels to me. Read well that forum page. He needed just a pair of fighters in different directions.. Bah, intellectual honesty is rare.
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Postby px320 » Thu May 19, 2011 4:44 pm

Zorotama wrote:Ya, I said that just to be accurate about the history. And just to show the difference between a master and a noob. A master finds new ways and share them with all. A noob snatches the trick and doesnt share it with anyone. I know, I know..I love him. But he's a noob.


So lay it on us, master.

:wink:

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