questions about naval nuking?

[world idiot]

I get the point of naval nuking (forcing the opponent back, making them reactive not proactive, etc.), but am having a few problems both facing naval nukers, and performing the nuking. Would someone pls answer the following questions I have:

Concernind defence against naval nuking:
1. What is the best way to avoid enemy naval nukes?
i ask as in a 2v2 ladder match, someone (i think it wasd why) naval nuked the hell outta me in defcon1, yet i could hold my own in defcon 3 and 2

2. What would be the best defence (ie, doing something to reduce its effectiveness, making it harder to perform as opposed to just retreating)
My current opinion is fighters, lots of fighters, try to take down the bombers quickly, reducing the number of waves the enemy can perform, this is kinda hard to do.

concerning performing naval nuking

3. Whats the best way to perform naval nuking (carpet bombing, strategic placement of nukes, etc)?
don't know why, but i never hit, or even force the opponent back so that's why this one is being asked

4. How densely packed should the nukes be.

5. Is there a better way to do it than just firing from split-off bombers?
By this i mean is there something similar to the coastal bomber wave that you can use for naval nuking. My idea is to have a line of bombers just behind the battleships firing nukes evenly spaced apart, but I am wondering what all your thoughts are

Random question:
Am I thinking too deeply about this

[Nightwatch]

Concernind defence against naval nuking:
1. What is the best way to avoid enemy naval nukes?
i ask as in a 2v2 ladder match, someone (i think it wasd why) naval nuked the hell outta me in defcon1, yet i could hold my own in defcon 3 and 2

Simple: Constant movement.
A stationary fleet is a much easier target, especially to a naval nuke killing field.
As soon as Defcon 1 hits change the course of your fleets. Especially when they are in close formation and/or you are winning the naval battle.
Your opponent will assume that you continue your course until you see the nukes incoming.
With a course correction way before that you can avoid even a very big and carefully deployed killing field.

2. What would be the best defence (ie, doing something to reduce its effectiveness, making it harder to perform as opposed to just retreating)
My current opinion is fighters, lots of fighters, try to take down the bombers quickly, reducing the number of waves the enemy can perform, this is kinda hard to do.

IMO: Dont mass your fleet at Defcon 1 when your enemy has intel on your position and direction. Split them up, retreat and send out bombers. Shoting bombers down is absolutely neccessary, not just from the naval nuking point of view.
In most cases, right at Defcon 1 is the only time your enemy will be able to deploy massive amounts of naval nukings. Be aware of that fact, counter it with launching fighters before Defcon 1 and change headings.
It isnt that hard not to get nuked at Defcon 1.
If you have enough time to maneuver and your fleet isnt tightly packed, not much can go wrong.
Keep in mind, naval nukes have a limited blast range for only one second. They dont kill over time or everything the pass or something. Adjust your headings according to that. With x naval nukes incoming you can still outmaneuver them cause no opponent will nuke the same spot multiple times.

Anyway, the key to defend from naval nuking is the skill to guess where nukes will hit.
If you are good at it youll soon cheer on every deployed naval nuke. It means one nuke that cant be used against your cities and it means one downed bomber in much cases.

3. Whats the best way to perform naval nuking (carpet bombing, strategic placement of nukes, etc)?
don't know why, but i never hit, or even force the opponent back so that's why this one is being asked

The best - and only usefull IMO - scenario is agains a fleet without room to maneuver.
Carefull deployed carpet bombing can work against an opponent that doesnt know what to do.

4. How densely packed should the nukes be.

The nukes should hit something. Its pointless to nuke the seas randomly with huge amounts of nukes only to hit something.
Loli deployed 30 naval nukes against me recently. In the end he hit 2 subs and one bomber. Total waste.

5. Is there a better way to do it than just firing from split-off bombers?
By this i mean is there something similar to the coastal bomber wave that you can use for naval nuking. My idea is to have a line of bombers just behind the battleships firing nukes evenly spaced apart, but I am wondering what all your thoughts are

Waste of nukes. I change heading and sail away.

Random question:
Am I thinking too deeply about this

Considering naval nuking is ineffective, yes

[world idiot]

thanks nightwatch, pretty much everything i need to know answered.

[Ace Rimmer]

Here's my opinion...

First and foremost a player must understand and use the concept of resource conservation. That is, for every fighter, bomber, ship, and nuke you don't deploy to hold off/attack the other player, when he does deploy, and you are successful in your goal, you're now ahead of the game.

Example:

Code: Select all

Scenario:    Five enemy bombers spotted

Your action: Order out 2 fighters
His action:  Orders out 10 fighters

Now, while you might not kill all those bombers (and he might), you just saved 8 planes that can be used elsewhere. Keeping in mind that most players don't use their resources very efficiently, you don't have to worry about killing those five bombers this time you encounter them. You can kill them next time with another two fighters and at most you've just used less than half the amount of fighters to kill the same number of bombers.

Apply this concept to the game as a whole, and you are already ahead. In practice, I still find it difficult to hold back bombers, especially at Defcon 1 but have found it very helpful.

So, to answer your question about effective naval nuking; if you send out a couple of bombers here and there (as opposed to 30, like loli), in most cases you'll be constantly disrupting enemy fleet movements while adding a new level of frustration and distraction to your opponent. Mass naval nuking should only be used in rare cases when the enemy is cornered or has silos protecting his fleet.

How many games have you played when you know subs are being massed at your coast and thought "I sure wish I had at least one or two nukes left, perhaps I could do something about those subs..."?

As for defense, Nightwatch is right, changing course is the best way. Not clustering your ships is another. Lastly, don't send out fighters at Defcon 1 to take out naval nuking bombers. Wait a bit. It takes 120 seconds for those bombers to switch. If you wait half that time (60s), the chances are better that you'll catch the bombers out in the open and before they're ready to unload. Combine this with retreating and he'll have to have his bombers moving ahead of his fleet (planes are faster than ships) in order to actually get at you. Do everything you can to force his bombers away from his fleet, or at least cause him to have to wait as long as possible to use them. The longer a player has to wait in a naval fight, the more mistakes he'll make, guaranteed.

To sum it all up, my point is there are concepts to master that make techniques work. Once you master a general concept, you can alter the technique to suit the game. This is especially true for naval nuking.

[world idiot]

^^^ - damn he is good

genius take on the whole naval nuking thing

[rus|Mike]

No need for any movement if you can build up a nice radar coverage. Bombers (especially in SRBM launch mode) have shit for radar range compared to carriers so it's not difficult to take out enemy bombers when you see them well before the time you want to run away from evil nukes.

Some fighter patrols in most dangerous places will also do a good job. The bigger the aproaching mass of bombers, the easier it is to spot them with an ocasional fighter.

[Nightwatch]

No need for any movement if you can build up a nice radar coverage.

Thats why you should launch fighters before Defcon 1.

Bombers (especially in SRBM launch mode) have shit for radar range compared to carriers so it's not difficult to take out enemy bombers when you see them well before the time you want to run away from evil nukes.

Good luck doing that when your enemy comes with 10++ naval nuking bombers and 20 regulars to the party.
Its always safer to pull back a little. What do you have to lose? Time? Not that cruical in 2v2.

Some fighter patrols in most dangerous places will also do a good job. The bigger the aproaching mass of bombers, the easier it is to spot them with an ocasional fighter.

Just make sure that you dont run out of fighters.

[rus|Mike]

Nitghtwatch, arguing with you is useless My methods work perfectly, yours... say... hardly. So you'd better try and harvest some usefull info from my advices

[Ace Rimmer]

No need for any movement if you can build up a nice radar coverage.

Thats why you should launch fighters before Defcon 1.

Wrong, go after Defcon 1. Or if you must, send a very small scout party out before/at Defcon 1 to *deter bombers and then wait 60s or so after Defcon 1 to send the main scouting party.

Giving an impression of forces can be just as effective as actually having forces. One of the tactics used against the Germans in WWI was skeleton suicide squads. Forces under French General Gouraud would leave a few men to send up flares when the Germans advanced into the first line of trenches, which would signal the artillery to begin showering that first line of trenches with shells. This had two effects, it gave the advancing forces a false sense of confidence "Hurrah! we've taken new ground easily!" and then decimated their numbers, energy, and momentum. By the time they reached the real line of defense, they were 'broken', facing 'fresh' troops. This same strategy can be used in Defcon, as I've outlined above.

*This can be very helpful. Causing an enemy to rethink and redirect his bombers route gives you some valuable time. This is especially true if he turns them completely around.

[world idiot]

thank u, all of u

rly helpful pointers on naval nuking

[Nightwatch]

Nitghtwatch, arguing with you is useless My methods work perfectly, yours... say... hardly. So you'd better try and harvest some usefull info from my advices

I just lag micromanagment skills and patience
Go ahead, dont change course and try to to shot down 30 bombers with 24 fighters against bb coverage.
Ask Senator how that played out in his current game

Wrong, go after Defcon 1. Or if you must, send a very small scout party out before/at Defcon 1 to *deter bombers and then wait 60s or so after Defcon 1 to send the main scouting party.

Which will result in downed bombers after they released their nukes.

Giving an impression of forces can be just as effective as actually having forces.

Yes. But your enemy knows your exact forces numbers way before he starts a massive naval nuking assault.

[tllotpfkamvpe]

.

[world idiot]

Giving an impression of forces can be just as effective as actually having forces.

Yes. But your enemy knows your exact forces numbers way before he starts a massive naval nuking assault.

My enemy doesnt always know the distribution of my forces, which ocean, etc.



and typical mvpe advise given at then end of it all, having brevity and simplicity and ... umm ...

[Nightwatch]

My enemy doesnt always know the distribution of my forces, which ocean, etc.

At Defcon 1? If your enemy has no intel on you (there was no naval encounter) you dont have to worry about a naval nuking attack.
If there was a naval fight before, your enemy should know whats up against him/her.
If not you dealing with a noob. And those dont naval nuke.

and typical mvpe advise given at then end of it all, having brevity and simplicity and ... umm ...

just say stfu mvpe and ignore him.

[Ace Rimmer]

Wrong, go after Defcon 1. Or if you must, send a very small scout party out before/at Defcon 1 to *deter bombers and then wait 60s or so after Defcon 1 to send the main scouting party.

Which will result in downed bombers after they released their nukes.

Maybe, maybe not. It really doesn't matter if the nuke is ineffective in hitting ships and/or disrupting your plans.

Giving an impression of forces can be just as effective as actually having forces.

Yes. But your enemy knows your exact forces numbers way before he starts a massive naval nuking assault.

My enemy doesnt always know the distribution of my forces, which ocean, etc.

Exactly. He knows how many forces you have to begin with, but he doesn't know where those forces are or how much strength you have in each location, in most cases. Even if he encounters you at Defcon 3, he should be guessing as to the exact strength of your navy.