Variable nuke speed; depending on location?

[Nightwatch]

While i was conducting some in dept studying on the gameplay i came across something odd and new to me:

The speed of nukes (silo nukes) is not constant for a given distance.
It depends on where you launch.

As you can see in those two pictures, i used the coordinate mod for a constant distance (10 coordinate points).





The traveling time (in game time in minutes and seconds) of the nukes changes quite a bit.
I'm wondering why that is the case.

It seems like the nuke arcs take the curvature of Earth into accout or something.
Or maybe the coordinate grid is to blame?

Any thoughts on this one?
Maybe its a really old story which i missed...

[Ace Rimmer]

I can't remember if this was ever brought up, although I wasn't part of the beta/alpha testing. Either way, I can't see how this would help/hurt anybody unless you wanted to get extremely accurate on timing to wait till the very last second to launch. Even then, you can guess and do just fine.

[trickser]

I noticed this too. My speculation was, it has something to do with the flattened arc near the north pol. But since your straight south nukes also have different times, that doesnt seem to be the case. But may be a measurment error (10:10 vs 10:15).

[Nightwatch]

can't remember if this was ever brought up, although I wasn't part of the beta/alpha testing. Either way, I can't see how this would help/hurt anybody unless you wanted to get extremely accurate on timing to wait till the very last second to launch. Even then, you can guess and do just fine.

Well...

I was thinking about a general balistic chart based on the coordinate grid.
If it were constant you could even calculate a perfect silo vs silo attack from various angles on various targets.
Not everyone has the feel to get perfect nuke packages, especially on bad angles.

But since it is not constant this is not possible unless Introversion woudl release the forumlas they used on nuke arcs (which will not happen).

But may be a measurment error (10:10 vs 10:15).

That may be. But either way, it doesnt help much.

[Ace Rimmer]

There is a ballistics chart somewhere around here...

Edit: Found it, gotta love google

[Nightwatch]

Im aware of that chart.

However, as i said, my goal was to create a map based on the grid, not on any geographical locations.
With this you could caluclate any attack from anywhere to any target and therefore get perfect nuke packages.

[Ace Rimmer]

Understood, however Defcon is a mixture of art and science. Therefore, a statistically perfect launch might be meaningless in-game. (which is why I've never bothered to match (MOR)'s ability to silo launch)

As for subs, well I just like the way it looks as 12 nukes come in together, salvo after salvo.

[Nightwatch]

Understood, however Defcon is a mixture of art and science. Therefore, a statistically perfect launch might be meaningless in-game. (which is why I've never bothered to match (MOR)'s ability to silo launch)

Meaningless to some degree.
Howeverm if you arent able to get a perfect silo package over long distances against radar cover you might lose a game.
Not everyone has the neccessary feeling, not everyone is a Master of the Art (i'm not).
It would have been cool to have such a tool available (it would take silo nuking to a hoel new level IMO, you could even consider totally new silo setups) but well, Defcon will never be entirely calculable.

As for subs, well I just like the way it looks as 12 nukes come in together, salvo after salvo.

Yeah well, on sub launching distance it isnt that much of a challenge to get somewhat good packages.
With Silos accross the hole map it is.

[rus|Mike]

The speed of nukes (silo nukes) is not constant for a given distance.

That is because in given example they traveled different distances

[Nightwatch]

Öhm, no actually
Dont get confused by the zoom or something.
Count the corrdinates.
There are ten grid points om either directon, not counting the silo.
The travelled distance is exactly the same.
->


wish it were that simple
What you can say is that the arc is different. Thats a symptom of the problem, not an excuse or solution.

[Ace Rimmer]

Something that you might not have considered: It is possible that the grid overlay is incorrect, giving the illusion of variable times.

[rus|Mike]

Öhm, no actually
Dont get confused by the zoom or something.
Count the corrdinates.
There are ten grid points om either directon, not counting the silo.

What grid points are you talking about?? Nuke is not flying straight to the target, thus you can't tell if it travelled the same distance in both cases.

Besides, speeds are constant variables (2 speeds for ships, 1 speed for sub, 1 for shots, 1 for nukes... I thought it's well-known) which means that nuke travelled different distances in given example. Very easy indeed.

[Why?]

I measured both points in the Africa picture, and the southern route is longer... 7" to 6 3/4"... After you take into account the 2min difference in launch times, that quarter-inch explains the minor difference. Also, I measured from the center of the silo, not the point you placed the silo under... meaning the grid is off by more than half an inch, vetically, over 10 points.

I think I read on here, that the older grid mod, by shinygerbil, is flawed... it's too long vertically. I've tested Senator's grid, in the same way, and it's accurate.

[trickser]

I am pretty sure the travlegridmod is accurate, because its based on the coordinate system used by the borders file. What also works flawless is sailing ships (or flying planes) anywhere in the world, they will always have the same speed.

Ive made a test to show the influense of north pole.
I launched the southern silos 1st, then goining to north. Because i was slow, you can assume 2sec between each launch. The most northern nukes hit 1st. Then the southern followd. The bottom 4 hit almost same time.




The northern silos hit sooner then the southern, even thought, they have been fired later.

[Nightwatch]

What grid points are you talking about?

Those shown in the picture.

Nuke is not flying straight to the target, thus you can't tell if it travelled the same distance in both cases.

Yes and no. Its not about the arc of the nuke. Yes, those are different and that is exactly the problem!
It is the problem because the distance between silo and target is always the same in my test.
10 grid points from the coordinate mod.
For the same distance nukes are flying different arcs, depending on the location and target of the silo.
Therefore there can be no general balistic chart because the speed has to be the same, regardless wether your launch in Siberia or Congo.

Besides, speeds are constant variables (2 speeds for ships, 1 speed for sub, 1 for shots, 1 for nukes... I thought it's well-known) which means that nuke travelled different distances in given example. Very easy indeed.

If you want to have it word for word: The nuke arcs are not constant.

measured both points in the Africa picture, and the southern route is longer... 7" to 6 3/4"...

Its not north vs south but North (africa) vs North (russia) and South (Africa) vs South (Russia).

Also, I measured from the center of the silo, not the point you placed the silo under... meaning the grid is off by more than half an inch, vetically, over 10 points.

I placed the silos directly on the gridpoint. The nukes are launching exactly in the middle.

I launched the southern silos 1st, then goining to north. Because i was slow, you can assume 2sec between each launch. The most northern nukes hit 1st. Then the southern followd. The bottom 4 hit almost same time.

So its the northpole then.