1v1 pairings - revenge of the stats

In-depth tactical discussion on how to lose the least

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Durr, of course
4
31%
Wow, this is a revelation
0
No votes
Nuke Russia. From the Indian.
9
69%
 
Total votes: 13
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Tripper
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Postby Tripper » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:54 am

Funny that this topic should come up as the ladder playoffs approach.

My view is that the luck of the draw is part and parcel of the 1v1 ladder. It can help people be upwardly mobile every once in a while, and you can't permanently lose anything as a result of a loss (rechallenge after 3 days, challenge someone else, no dramas)

However, in a knockout competition, I don't really like the idea of luck playing such an imporant part. (I'm still smarting over drawing the wrong end of the Star against Ace in the ASW semi ;) )

So here are my thoughts on how to make Domino's challenge more "fair".

Option 1: Play best of 3. I don't like this because a) it takes too much time and b) luck could still come into it - just one favourable draw would give one player the edge

Option 2: Play a return leg as suggested by Blackbeard. I also don't really support this one, mainly because I think that the playing style might need change significantly if the goal is points minimax rather than just a win. For example, the Star guarantees an (often narrow) win: this might not be ideal in a return leg scenario. It's not that this isn't necessarily a good thing, but it doesn't reflect the playing style of the ladder just far. It also takes a bit more time

Option 3: The "least balanced" draws - Asia v Russia and Africa v Europe - could be automatically excluded, and rerolled

Option 3a: Each player has one chance to demand a reroll of territories, regardless of the draw. This is "fair" but there is still an element of luck (albeit only about 1% change of being on the receiving end of the Star)

So Option 3a is probably my preferred option - Perhaps ynbniar would like to set up a poll?

Cheers, Tripper
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Postby rus|Mike » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:59 pm

Play best of 3.

No thanks. I don't have spare 6 hours.

The "least balanced" draws - Asia v Russia and Africa v Europe - could be automatically excluded, and rerolled

Was it you who decided that exactly theese setups are "least balanced"? :roll:

Each player has one chance to demand a reroll of territories

Oh come on...
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Postby MikeTheWookiee » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:28 pm

Tripper wrote:Option 3a: Each player has one chance to demand a reroll of territories, regardless of the draw. This is "fair" but there is still an element of luck (albeit only about 1% change of being on the receiving end of the Star)

So Option 3a is probably my preferred option - Perhaps ynbniar would like to set up a poll?

Cheers, Tripper


Option 3a is the most workable of all of them. Just say that during D5, each player has the option of asking for a restart, but once you've asked, you can't ask again in any subsequent restarted games.

The other options are either open to abuse, or will just favour other territories more. And take up to 6 hours to play a game. This one still preserves that random chance element that you might still get a bad draw twice in a row. :lol:
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Postby Tripper » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:23 pm

MikeTheWookiee wrote:
Tripper wrote:Option 3a: Each player has one chance to demand a reroll of territories, regardless of the draw. This is "fair" but there is still an element of luck (albeit only about 1% change of being on the receiving end of the Star)

So Option 3a is probably my preferred option - Perhaps ynbniar would like to set up a poll?

Cheers, Tripper


Option 3a is the most workable of all of them. Just say that during D5, each player has the option of asking for a restart, but once you've asked, you can't ask again in any subsequent restarted games.

The other options are either open to abuse, or will just favour other territories more. And take up to 6 hours to play a game. This one still preserves that random chance element that you might still get a bad draw twice in a row. :lol:


Hurrah, 2 votes for option 3a! And the Wookie's suggestion is perfectly workable particularly if there are spectators in attendance (which you would expect for a final). Or Bert could write some very clever code to allow people to type /reroll during Defcon 5 - but only once a day and only in Duel servers :lol:

@rus|Mike's second point, it wasn't me, it was the stats, the stats never lie :roll: But I agree with the Wookie that scratching the "worst odds" will just leave another pairing as being the "worst".

If it were up to me, all 1v1 finals would either be Asia v Africa, NA v EU, or SA v Russia :shock:

Cheers, Tripper
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Postby White--Rabbit » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:36 pm

option 3 works the best

Altho i think that this would work to

all 1v1 finals would either be Asia v Africa, NA v EU, or SA v Russia
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:42 pm

I say that it should just be random and first roll. Getting the Star against Ace is all part of Defcon. :P Seriously though, even I could end up as Russia against Asia. :wink:
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Postby White--Rabbit » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:50 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:I say that it should just be random and first roll. Getting the Star against Ace is all part of Defcon. :P Seriously though, even I could end up as Russia against Asia. :wink:



LOL .... I wouldnt want to play ace and the star.
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Postby ynbniar » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:03 pm

Tripper wrote:Perhaps ynbniar would like to set up a poll?Cheers, Tripper


I don't think I will...normal ladder rules apply.

I realise there are some tricky setups but who said winning the challenge was going to be easy :?:

I'm keeping it simple...1v1, random territory, playoff 1 game, final 1 game.

:)
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Postby rus|Mike » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:48 pm

@rus|Mike's second point, it wasn't me, it was the stats, the stats never lie

Erm.. to put it bluntly: you say that if a majority of the players was too stupid to use propely some advantages of some setups then those setups don't count as "least decent" although they really are. Africa vs Russia 5:9? What a bullshit! I played this setup dozens of times and never lost as Africa.

Stop pussy style! Oh I got bad setup! No what a bad luck now I can't win!

Normal ladder rules rule!

EDIT:
yanbniar wrote:I don't think I will...normal ladder rules apply.
I realise there are some tricky setups but who said winning the challenge was going to be easy Question
I'm keeping it simple...1v1, random territory, playoff 1 game, final 1 game.

Yesss! :)
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Postby Tripper » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:57 pm

Heh, I think that any game vs rus|Mike is a "least decent" position.

<---------------- <meow>

Domino's decision is final, of course, but there's no harm in debating ... is there ... ?

/me wants to see rus|Mike drawing Russia in a playoff game now ... :-p
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Postby rus|Mike » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:59 pm

/me wants to see rus|Mike drawing Russia in a playoff game now ... :-p

No worries dude, I won as Russia quite a few times :wink:
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Postby Tripper » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:01 pm

rus|Mike wrote:
/me wants to see rus|Mike drawing Russia in a playoff game now ... :-p

No worries dude, I won as Russia quite a few times :wink:


v Africa? Maybe that's why its 5:9 :wink:

Edit, yes, twice, v Joshua and _Ender_, in my sample. The other ones were _Ender_ over me and Pox, and (MOR) over Coby. Draw your own conclusions ....
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Postby Ace Rimmer » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:37 pm

Tripper wrote:
rus|Mike wrote:
/me wants to see rus|Mike drawing Russia in a playoff game now ... :-p

No worries dude, I won as Russia quite a few times :wink:


v Africa? Maybe that's why its 5:9 :wink:

Edit, yes, twice, v Joshua and _Ender_, in my sample. The other ones were _Ender_ over me and Pox, and (MOR) over Coby. Draw your own conclusions ....

That the stats are incomplete and skewed. :wink:
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Postby rus|Mike » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:47 pm

Yea. :D
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Postby ynbniar » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:07 pm

Tripper wrote:Domino's decision is final, of course, but there's no harm in debating ... is there ... ?


No harm at all...debate is positively encouraged to spot all the loopholes I'll have forgotten about...

:wink:

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