New Recruits Needed

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64 Byte Killer
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New Recruits Needed

Postby 64 Byte Killer » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:28 pm

Hello IV Community,

I have recently started a new project to develop a ''new version" of uplink. I didn't place this in The Future section since thats for the discussion of idea's for the future and i'm keeping this project low key for now so I won't be mentioning too many details on here.

Spare me the crap about how my project is going to fail and all the rest of it, whether this fails or not only time will tell and I am willing to take that risk and I know how big a risk that is from previous experience which I have learnt from.

I am looking for programmers and graphics designers mainly. You don't need to be highly skilled in either of these area's but some basic knowledge will be useful. When it comes to programming, anyone with .Net, Python, Lua or C++ experience would be useful to us. :)

Currently we are in the process of brainstorming idea's and answering different questions regarding development of the project and management of it. When the ideas come closer to be finalized we will consider structuring the project and completing a development plan after which development will begin.

If anybody is interested please pm me and I will give you a few more details. I am only recruiting people who are serious about development of a new version of any kind and you must be willing to put some time into it, only as much as you can afford to spend on the project but you must put in some effort even if it means learning the basics of a new computer skill.

This isn't an overnight project. No doubt this will continue for many many months. If you have a passion for a new version and can put some time and effort into it then we have a need for you.

Whether you have just idea's or various computer skills such as networking experience, database experience there will be a need for you.

Regards
ByteKiller
Last edited by 64 Byte Killer on Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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frenchfrog
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Postby frenchfrog » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:07 pm

Good luck! (no sarcasm intended)

A better description of what you intend to do would have been appreciated but I understand you want to keep the discussion elsewhere.
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64 Byte Killer
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Postby 64 Byte Killer » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:10 pm

frenchfrog wrote:Good luck! (not sarcasm intended)

A better description of what you intend to do would have been appreciated but I understand you want to keep the discussion elsewhere.


Thanks for the vote of confidence. I would give a better description openly but I only want to give a description to those with some interest in development of something such as this. I don't want idea's being stolen to be honest. :? Unlike other developers though we have had to be realistic and say the first release won't be what we want or even close to it but we are just trying to develop something we can build on later that way we have a little less chance of failure because we have considered every element.

We have a few members who have already signed up but need to build a bigger community so we can have different levels of experience in different area's.

Also, any suggestions the IV community may have about what programming language and/or scripting language we should use please post your thoughts here. Also, if you would like to know some more information about the project then just post your questions in here and I will answer them if possible.
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Postby mteknight » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:24 am

Hi everyone!

I was the third to join this project and I can assure it will become something big, unlike many other projets about new versions of uplink or multiplayer ones. This project is being organized and planned like a real software development and ideas are comming with the wind.
We have progressed a bit in the last 2 weeks of plan and project development, and this game WILL probably come out. We are really just needing developers to join us in order to bring this project plans into action.
I am sure that many are thinking we will get screwd in the end, but if we don't, THEY will be playing the game...

Anyway this is not a girl's dream, we're here for real! Developers come and join us making this game a real fun and challenging entertainment.
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Postby 64 Byte Killer » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:40 am

I would just like to add to mte's comment. We aren't just fantasizing about everything here. We are being realistic and our aim is to primarily develop a basic client/server model for this game. As much as we have had amazing idea's about what we would like to see we have had to be realistic and say stick to basics and something very simple at first then we will build on it which is why generally the other projects that people put together on the forums went down the tubes because they weren't realistic.

I understand this is a mammoth task to complete but it isn't impossible. We really do need some more intellectually minded people on the team since mteknight is getting old ;) :lol: we have been realistic with ourselves when it comes to this project I assure you all of that and we would like to develop at least something for the community to enjoy a little bit even if it is crap when the basics are up and running and undoubtedly it will be.

So if you are up for the challenge feel free to pm me if you want to join us or at least have a look at what has been discussed so far. When you register on the forums though I will have to give you access to all area's initially since you won't see anything other than the news and announcements section initially.
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Postby mteknight » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:06 am

Just to add another info. If any developers wish to help, please pm Byte Killer and we will keep it annonymous in case you don't want to let others know you're trying to help and therefore keep you appart of things.
So be sure to pm Byte and no one else will know about!

C ya later player this newest success!
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Postby doormat » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:28 pm

I pleased to see that you've all got together and are talking a lot, forming intresting ideas. That's nice.

Do you actualy have any... you know... coders at all? :lol:

People like EA can employ people who work in a more conceptual way, because they also employ programmers. In the fan community, where programmers don't get paid, they're unlikely to do what you tell them to.

If you're hoping someone will just come along, follow your plan and turn all your concepts into reality, while you "lead the project"... it's just not going to happen. (And I promise you that.)

Sorry, that's just how things are.
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Postby 64 Byte Killer » Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:16 pm

doormat wrote:I pleased to see that you've all got together and are talking a lot, forming intresting ideas. That's nice.

Do you actualy have any... you know... coders at all? :lol:

People like EA can employ people who work in a more conceptual way, because they also employ programmers. In the fan community, where programmers don't get paid, they're unlikely to do what you tell them to.

If you're hoping someone will just come along, follow your plan and turn all your concepts into reality, while you "lead the project"... it's just not going to happen. (And I promise you that.)

Sorry, that's just how things are.


Your speaking to one of the coders right now and the other one is mteknight :roll: and why are you worrying so much about coders? Thats not a big deal and if you did your research you would see why! You NEVER choose the programming language before you even design the game because you want to choose a language that suits the games needs even if it means learning a new language.

It never works if you get big ideas and don't set realistic goals or achievements and accept your first release is going to be crap regardless of how much work you put into it. Design, then choose what language will achieve that best.

People like EA are a massive company and you cannot compare that to a community of developers! You have to learn to not just recruit people who have interest in the project. You need people willing to work on the project and the ones so far involved are willing to do that and you have to lay out the project to them and involve them in all parts of it including the leadership role. And you don't just blast idea's and orders at them you need to explain it and that way they are more likely to achieve that. You need mature people in a project, most so far are even older than I am but even so, each person is involved in every area because we are a community not a corporation.

And you don't need to promise me anything, I already know what it is like.
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Postby Rkiver » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:31 pm

I'll believe it when I see it. Too much around here starts out with all these lavish ideas, promises etc, and nothing ever appears as of yet.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:39 pm

64 Byte Killer wrote:You NEVER choose the programming language before you even design the game because you want to choose a language that suits the games needs even if it means learning a new language.


To be honest this is a very worrying statement. There is really only one language for programming serious games and that is C/C++. There are lots of great languages, but virtually all the game development libraries and APIs are setup for C/C++. If you haven't figured this much out at this point, you really have no business making public announcements about the project. The chances of this project even getting off the ground look to be near zero from what I have read in this thread. I hope I'm mistaken, but I doubt I am.
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Postby 64 Byte Killer » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:00 pm

Stewsburntmonkey wrote:
64 Byte Killer wrote:You NEVER choose the programming language before you even design the game because you want to choose a language that suits the games needs even if it means learning a new language.


To be honest this is a very worrying statement. There is really only one language for programming serious games and that is C/C++. There are lots of great languages, but virtually all the game development libraries and APIs are setup for C/C++. If you haven't figured this much out at this point, you really have no business making public announcements about the project. The chances of this project even getting off the ground look to be near zero from what I have read in this thread. I hope I'm mistaken, but I doubt I am.


Every language has it's advantages and disadvantages. C++ is not the only language for programming serious games. There is no "holy grail" of programming languages. .Net is perfectly capable for building a game such as this. Yes there is a lot of library support with C++ but there are with many other languages. .Net and Java are very close competitors of C++ and have plenty of development libraries and API's.

You also need to consider what language will suit your team also. C++ is a very hard language to learn and although you may say well why start using a language thats close to C++? Why not just learn C++ in the first place? well, wouldn't it be more beneficial starting with a less complex language to get comfortable programming and understanding the syntax and semantics then moving on to a more complex language...you don't learn quadratic equations in primary school do you? They teach you the basics of mathmatics and gradually you progress.

This project will turn out crap on first release because we are NOT a full blown games developing company! The only way that happens is through gradual progression as is the dream of creating a game such as this.

Im not talking shit here...I have development experience and I have worked and still am working for game developing companies so if you don't agree with what is being said and feel you can do a better job then why aren't you?
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Postby Rkiver » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:06 pm

Why doesn't he? Same reason most of us don't I'd wager. We don't want to and have other things to do.

This is sounding more and more like vapourware with each response given here. We've seen enough of it over the years to be honest, and this reeks of it to me. Then again I am not adverse to being proved wrong. It may happen one day.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:09 pm

64 Byte Killer wrote:Every language has it's advantages and disadvantages. C++ is not the only language for programming serious games. There is no "holy grail" of programming languages. .Net is perfectly capable for building a game such as this. Yes there is a lot of library support with C++ but there are with many other languages. .Net and Java are very close competitors of C++ and have plenty of development libraries and API's.


.NET isn't a programming language and Java is too slow for use in most serious games.


64 Byte Killer wrote:You also need to consider what language will suit your team also. C++ is a very hard language to learn and although you may say well why start using a language thats close to C++? Why not just learn C++ in the first place? well, wouldn't it be more beneficial starting with a less complex language to get comfortable programming and understanding the syntax and semantics then moving on to a more complex language...you don't learn quadratic equations in primary school do you? They teach you the basics of mathmatics and gradually you progress.


If you are not familiar with programming in general and are having to learn programming to do this project, there is a serious problem. Games are some of the most complex programming projects you can attempt. If you are worried about learning the syntax of a language like C, then trying to understand the complexities of game development is going to be virtually insurmountable. Using your math analogy, it is like trying to solve differential equations before you know algebra.


64 Byte Killer wrote:Im not talking shit here...I have development experience and I have worked and still am working for game developing companies so if you don't agree with what is being said and feel you can do a better job then why aren't you?


Well you have been talking a fair amount of shit so far, but that aside, I am a developer and am doing virtually all the development work on a couple of internet startups currently, so I'm a bit busy.
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Postby 64 Byte Killer » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:27 pm

Stewsburntmonkey wrote:.NET isn't a programming language and Java is too slow for use in most serious games.


.Net is a framework, VB.Net is language. Java, granted isn't quite as fast as C/C++ when interpreted, but when compiled, it runs almost as fast as anything else. Quite a few people say that due to the virtual machine installed on the computer the java compiler will run slower, but then again some say that it doesn't affect performace because it forces all objects onto the heap, which means that the GC does cause slowdowns.


Stewsburntmonkey wrote:If you are not familiar with programming in general and are having to learn programming to do this project, there is a serious problem. Games are some of the most complex programming projects you can attempt. If you are worried about learning the syntax of a language like C, then trying to understand the complexities of game development is going to be virtually insurmountable. Using your math analogy, it is like trying to solve differential equations before you know algebra.


I am very familar with programming in general as well as games programming. I do understand the complexity of it which is why at the beginning you have to keep your goals realistic especially when it is being created by a community and not a development company. I am not worried about learning the syntax of a language. I am worried about whether or not my team is able to learn the chosen language along with the complexity of game development.


Stewsburntmonkey wrote:Well you have been talking a fair amount of shit so far, but that aside, I am a developer and am doing virtually all the development work on a couple of internet startups currently, so I'm a bit busy.


In that case, the development companies I have worked with and learnt from must be doing their job wrong as well as the institutions where I learnt about games development and programming. :roll:
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Postby 64 Byte Killer » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:31 pm

Rkiver wrote:Why doesn't he? Same reason most of us don't I'd wager. We don't want to and have other things to do.


I fail in this regard but, why bitch about what others try to achieve if you have better things to do and don't want to do anything? And with regards to vapourware, basically you mean a hoax of sorts?
Last edited by 64 Byte Killer on Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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