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Stewsburntmonkey
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:54 am

While some people can be a bit short with posters they feel are not being all that intelligent, most forum members will bend over backwards for someone who has a legitimate issue and asks about it intelligently. :)
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Postby nightperson » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:36 am

I guess I love debate as long as there is no harm done. :)

The keyword here is 'intelligent'. How do you judge if a question is asked intelligently? According to your own intelligence? or according to whoever is asking the question?

I remember I read a post from this forum. It contained several lines but no punctuation mark at all. It was difficult to read. It was very difficult for me to figure out what he was trying to ask because English is not my first language. I had to read the message for several times. While I was reading the message, I couldn't help wondering why he didn't use any punctuation mark. The first thought came to my mind was that he might have some sort of reading/writing disability. At last, I managed to figure out what his question was. I moved to the next post. Whoever responded to it did not give any help but humiliated him instead. I was glad when I found one decent forum member stood up for him. However, I haven't found any other post that has no puncation in it. I guess his feeling must have been hurt and he hasn't wanted to come back since. I felt very sorry for this guy who wasn't able to ask a question 'intelligently' as the forum required.

There was another post asking how to do the tuturiol mission. I couldn't help laughing and told myself this question would probably be asked by my 10-year-old niece. So I figured whoever posted it might be a kid. A kid is not supposed to be intelligent on hacking. However most of the responses for the post were just humiliating him. Could he take all the cruel words being said there if he were really just a little kid. I would never tolerate my little niece being treated like that. I got irritated.

When I kept on reading, I couldn't help wondering how come people on this forum could be so insensible? Because you don't 'see' tears in someone's eyes, you don't know you are hurting his/her feeling?

Human are considered as intelligent beings by ourselves. However, some of us were unfortunately born with intelligence below average, whom you might call retard. They might never be able to earn respect from people who consider themselves intelligent. But they certainly don't deserve to be humiliated only because they don't have the ability to ask questions intelligently.

If I'm not mistaken, I think Canada, USA and Britain have similiar law systems. We hold a suspect as innocent unless we can prove otherwise. And any suspect deserves reasonable doubt. I don't think that we should just accuse anyone who sounds like having an illegit copy as a thief or humiliate him as if he is one without concrete evidence.

I'm not saying that we have to help those who ask although I believe that helping those in need is a decent thing to do. I'm just asking to stop humiliating. By all means, it is not necessary to hurt others only because you consider them annoying, stupid or lying.

I'm done with my debate! Have a nice day, everyone! :)
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Postby ReflectingGod » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:09 pm

Nobody ever said this guy was a thief/pirate/warez monkey.

However, whilst "innocent until proven guilty" is all well and good, we should not be giving out code cards to anybody. If we do then we ourselves would be on the wrong side of the law, as it is not legal for us to supply the codes for the game to someone else.

And you must see that we are not keen to hand out codes to anybody, because we can never be sure if they actually ever bought the game or not. Sure, they all claim to have bought the CD, but they can't prove it.

So, other than being a little short tempered, I don't think anybody has mis-handled this situation at all, except for the guy asking for the code card.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:07 pm

If you've only seen one post with out any punctuation, then you haven't read all that many posts. That sort of post is not at all uncommon. We routinely get people posting without an punctuation or using no capitalization, short hand ("u" for "you", 4 for "for", etc), leet, or any combination of these. These are not a product of some language disability (at least in the vast majority of cases). These are a product of what most would classify as less than intelligent behaviour. If someone doesn't speak English natively then that is generally pretty obvious. The thing is no one here is getting paid to help people. If someone wants help they are requesting that someone here give their time to help them. Now most people here are perfectly willing to do that, but it is insulting to have to decypher a post that is poorly written before you can answer the question. It doesn't help that many of the people who write this way demand answers and get very irritated if they don't get help in a couple minutes. This is why many people are rather short with people who don't post properly.

Like Reflecting God said, in this specific thread I haven't seen any one behaiving badly.
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Postby nightperson » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:20 pm

Like Reflecting God said, in this specific thread I haven't seen any one behaiving badly


Well then I guess we live in different world, and we have different definition of 'badly behaving'. We certainly do have big difference in the degree of "sensitivity". I guess, from your point of view, you are not insensible but I'm way too sensitive.

If people don't consider that the behavior from 'short temper' is behaving badly or words are rude, harsh, insulting, humiliating or harmful, I guess we all live in a peaceful and wonderful world . We are all happy.

If you take the posts word by word or check every word up in the dictionary, the posts are fine. There is really nothing wrong with them at all. However, some of the posts are making fun of him. If you were desperate and went to your friend ask for help, he didn't offer you any help but just made fun of you instead. How do you feel? Laugh with him? Do you feel being humiliated? Some of posts show their doubt on his telling the truth. If you were leaving a supermarket, a security guard stopped you and asked you politely in front of a bunch of strangers if he could search you. How would you reaact? Tell him go ahead and search you? Don't you feel being insulted? If the person who comes forward to ask for a codecard is a recpectable and honest person, the meaning you imply in your posts are very insulting. I know I would be very angry. Don't you? While you hold strong suspicion against him, you don't think there is anything wrong. Right? I guess so.

Actually, if I remember correctly the forum policy on the www.uplink.co.uk (if not, somewhere else on the homepage) do say that no code is allowed to be given out. If you just say so, most people would take it. Some people may keep bugging but they will understand finally; otherwise, simply ignore them. Don't you think these are better approaches than making fun of him or implying he is lying?



If you've only seen one post with out any punctuation, then you haven't read all that many posts. That sort of post is not at all uncommon. We routinely get people posting without an punctuation or using no capitalization, short hand ("u" for "you", 4 for "for", etc), leet, or any combination of these. These are not a product of some language disability (at least in the vast majority of cases). These are a product of what most would classify as less than intelligent behaviour.


For god sake, I sincerely hope that the person I mentioned is much more intelligent and much more capable than I am.
They were assumptions I made. I don't take my instincts, assumptions, or even superficial evidence I got as the whole truth or fact. They stay as assumptions unless I can prove otherwise. In this case, I don't want my assumption become true at all. I was just saying that you might be hurting someone because of his unfortunate born-with disability or his being a little kid when you have no way to know what the person posted the question is actually like. When you don't think your words are harsh, they are far too harsh for a little kid or a person with an unfortunate born-with condition. We all know such people are very sensitive and can be hurt easily. When you had the chance to find out who is at the other end, the harm is already done. Or you might never know. But then, I don't think you care.

Words can hurt and they can do damage much more serious than you can imagine.

Anyway, I'm just saying there is no need to humiliate anyone here. If you found some posts, like this one, annoying or 'less intelligent', then ignore it. If you are not going to help, why not just simply ignore it? Why humiliate the person? Why make fun of it? Why be harsh or rude? Is it all that neccessary?


Moreover, the reason that I have difficulties to find what I'm looking for here does mostly come from those 'helpful forum members', not from those newbies who don't use search engines. As you all know, there are a lot of questions being asked over and over again on the forum. However, a lot of them haven't been answered. Instead, there are a bunch of nonsense responses attached to it and they are often found starting like:
Don't you see the search button? You idiot!
Read the FAQ! Retard!

And then the following posts are either making fun of the newbie, or humiliating him, or just discussing nothing related to the topic. I have to read all of them to see if any decent person did reply to the topic and give a possible solution.

If you found the repeated newbie questions are annoying, then you should fully understand how annoying those responses are when the newbie do use the search engine to look for their solutions. There were aseveral times that I wanted to stop searching and just posted the questions, but then these words,
" Don't you see the search button? You idiot! Read the FAQ! Retard!" kept flashing in my mind. As Stewsburntmonkey said I haven't read all that many posts, I did come upon such posts like hundred times. They work like the siren when hacking LAN. I have no way to ignore them or forget them. So I always had second thought. Why get myself humiliated for a game? It isn't worth. Then I kept digging and reading those unavoidable and irritating posts. But, just curious, how do you know if you are asking a so called newbie question or an intelligent question? While it isn't for oneself to judge, how would he know if he is asking a question intelligently before someone read his question and gave him comments?

I didn't say there is no people offering help. Actually, there are a few people very helpful. As a matter of fact, I read a lot of posts written by Mr. Roboto. They are very detailed and helpful. I can't remember the names of the others. Although they were not questions I posted, I did get what I was looking for. Thanks to those who did help. :)

By the way, there are some very interesting discussion on the forum too. If no newbie involved, reading the posts are often found enjoyable. Just finished reading a bunch of posts discussing how to make the world map. Looks like a lot of math genius in the game. :)
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:06 pm

nightperson wrote:
Like Reflecting God said, in this specific thread I haven't seen any one behaiving badly


Well then I guess we live in different world, and we have different definition of 'badly behaving'. We certainly do have big difference in the degree of "sensitivity". I guess, from your point of view, you are not insensible but I'm way too sensitive.

If people don't consider that the behavior from 'short temper' is behaving badly or words is not being rude, not insulting, not humiliating or not harmful....., I guess we all live in a peaceful and wonderful world . We are all happy.


I didn't even see anyone in this thread exhibit signs of a 'short temper'.

If you take the posts word by word or check every word up in the dictionary, the posts are fine. There is really nothing wrong with them at all. However, some of the posts are making fun of him. If you were desperate and went to your friend ask for help, he didn't offer you any help but just made fun of you instead. How do you feel? Laugh with him? Do you feel being humiliated? Some of posts show their doubt on his telling the truth. If you were leaving a supermarket, a security guard stopped you and asked you politely in front of a bunch of strangers if he could search you. How would you reaact? Tell him go ahead and search you? Don't you feel being insulted? If the person who comes forward to ask for a codecard is a recpectable and honest person, the meaning you imply in your posts are very insulting. I know I would be very angry. Don't you? While you hold strong suspicion against him, you don't think there is anything wrong. Right? I guess so.


I would be interested to see quotes from posts in this thread that you believe to be making fun of the original poster. The only one I see that is questionable is from Agent Spike who doesn't even post here that often. All the vets's posts look pretty good.

For god sake, I sincerely hope that the person I mentioned is much more intelligent and much more capable than I am.
They were assumptions I made. I don't take my instincts, assumptions, or even superficial evidence I got as truth or fact. They stay assumptions unless I can prove otherwise. In this case, I don't want my assumption become true at all. I was just saying that you might be hurting someone because of his unfortunate born-with disability or his being a little kid when you have no way to know what the person posted the question is like. When you don't think your words are harsh, they are far too harsh for a little kid or a person with an unfortunate born-with condition. We all know such people are very sensitive and can be hurt easily. When you had the chance to find out who is at the other end, the harm is already done. Or you might never know. But then, I don't think you care.


No, you don't always know who is posting, but you have to make some assumptions or you can never act. For instance how do we know the person posting understands any words he does not use in his post? According to what you seem to be saying is that we should therefore only use words in our posts that were used in the original post. I think you would agree that this sort of thing is simple not practical. In any event I have had a good deal of experience with all sorts of handicapped people and I have never seen a handicap that causes people to write in AOL style shorthand or use leet. These people are almost exclusively young wannabes. There is no need to pander to their stupidity.

I know this all sounds quite harsh, but that is how it is. I am a very patient and helpful person, but there is no reason to put up with stupidity. I work with mentally disabled peopled several times a week and grew up playing around with kids from the blind school where my dad volunteered. There is a huge difference between even the most profoundly disabled person and the typical teen/preteen hacker wannabe that we see here.


Words can hurt and they can do damage much more serious than you can imagine.


I believe i have a fairly good grasp of the harm words can do. Although in reality it is not the words as much as the intent behind the words that does the real harm.

Anyway, I'm just saying there is no need to humiliate anyone here. If you found some posts, like this one, annoying or 'less intelligent', then ignore it. If you are not going to help, why not just simply ignore it? Why humiliate the person? Why make fun of it? Is it all that neccessary?


I would agree that if you are not going to help it is generally best to simply ignore it. However, I have spent most of my time on these boards posting in the Hints and Tips forums helping people out. What I have found most effective is tell people who are being idiots, that their behavior is not appropriate and then to provide what answer I can.

Actually, if I remember correctly the forum policy on the www.uplink.co.uk (if not, somewhere else on the homepage) do say that no code is allowed to be given out. If you just say so, most people would take it. Some people may keep bugging but they will understand finally; otherwise, simply ignore them.


That is generally what is said. The times when people get flamed is when they make it obvious that they pirated the game. They say things like "I downloaded the game and it is asking me for a code, can someone give me the code?". I don't personally take part in these threads, but I don't think it is out of place for forum members to flame a pirate.


Moreover, the reason that I have difficulties to find what I'm looking for here does mostly come from those 'helpful forum members', not from those newbies who don't use search engines. As you all know, there are a lot of questions being asked over and over again on the forum. However, a lot of them haven't been answered. Instead, there are a bunch of nonsense responses attached to it and they are often found starting like:
Don't you see the search button? You idiot!
Read the FAQ! Retard!

And then the following posts are either making fun of the newbie, or humiliating him, or just discussing nothing related to the topic. I have to read all of them to see if any decent person did reply to the topic and give a possible solution.


That is actually entirely untrue. I have answered virtually every question posted about Uplink several times over. I haven't seen a truly new question is a year or two. However given the number of posts in the forums and the rather pittiful search function, vets do sometimes tell people to use the search engine, when the search engine does not return anything useful. However that is relatively rare occurance. More often than not people simply don't know how to use search engines properly.


If you found the repeated newbie questions are annoying, then you should fully understand how annoying those responses are when the newbie do use the search engine to look for their solutions. There were a several times that I wanted to stop searching and just posted the questions, but then these words,
" Don't you see the search button? You idiot! Read the FAQ! Retard!" kept flashing in my mind. As Stewsburntmonkey said I haven't read all that many posts, I did come upon such posts like hundred times. They work like the siren when hacking LAN. I have no way to ignore them or forget them. So I always had second thought. Why get myself humiliated for a game? It isn't worth. Then I kept digging and reading those irritating posts. But, just curious, how do you know if you are asking a so called newbie question or an intelligent question? While it isn't for oneself to judge, how would he know if he askes a question intelligently before someone read his question and gave him comments?


If you make a good faith effort to look for previous topics and look though the FAQ then there is no reason to fear posting your question. That is as long as you post in a decent way and mention that you did look though the FAQ and the forums first.
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Postby nightperson » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:46 pm

First of all, I think you take my words too personal, Stewsburntmonkey. Actually, I don't remember who wrote those harch posts. I was searching answers and kept reading for hours. I honestly didn't pay attention to who wrote them. Unless the post is very neat, detailed or delightful, I might be checking who is the writer. If I did offend you anyway, I'm sorry.

Whatever I said under this topic does have good intention. I just wish this forum could be more delightful and enjoyable for newcomers whom might later love to stay on and become fans of Introversion like you. I bet Chris would like that. Perhaps people here might like it otherwise and just want it as a fan forum for old friends to hang out. No matter which way it goes, I don't think it is something I can decide. I am just an average person who enjoy playing computer games. I am nobody to this forum and I honestly don't think I would come back to the forum after I could finish playing the game. So you can ignore me if you don't think what I said does make sense. :)

I think I already make my point. At least, I tried my best to make it clear. I don't have anything to add. I can't ask the others to agree with me on everything. If I could, I should be like living in heaven. It would be wonderful! Can you imagine that? :)
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:40 pm

I am very happy with my history on these forums, so I didn't take any offense at what you have said. I was simply explaining how I see the situation. Given that this game is more than three years old and new members keep joining on a regular basis I think these forums doing a pretty good job at welcoming new members. There are aways those people who register just to get their questions answered and then never come back, but we still attract a rather remarkable number of new "social members". Given that Uplink is a "hacking simulator" it would have been natural for these forums to be filled with the wannabe hacker set as many such places on the internet are. However this has not happened and the general population here is a good deal more sophisticated than that. I personally think this is good thing for both those who frequent these forums and for Introversion. The biggest problem is that given that many vets have been here for years most topics of conversation have been exhausted. The forums aren't the lively place they used to be, but they are not dead yet either. :)
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Postby nightperson » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:05 am

It is amazing to find a game forum staying online for years, especially there isn't any new game version released. I bet most of the fans on this forum are programmers or enjoy programming very much. Too bad, I don't know anything about coding. But if one day I wanted to learn programming, I know it would be the best place to start. :)
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Postby nightperson » Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:53 am

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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:41 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've noticed a trend here on these boards, Whenever someone asks a question 9 out of 10 times they end up getting some smart assed reply which doesn't help them at all and just makes more people reading these boards not want to post. Why spend the time being a ass when usually a short answer to their problem would take less time. I realize that these questions are more often then not answered a billion times already in other parts of the forum, and if they just spent a bit of time hitting the search button at the top and try and find the answer out themselves they would get the answer alot faster. Enough of my banter that will do no good what-so-ever in reaching those it's aimed at.

But to answer your question at no time during the game do you need a microphone to record your own voice. It is a Voice Analyser to record the voice of the system admin. You'll need to connect to the Public Domain server of what ever company your attacking and then add the system admins Phone number to your list of links. Disconnect from the Public server, fire up your voice analyser and then connect to the phone number you just added. From there the system admin will pick up the phone and you just recorded his voice for later use once inside the original server you were attacking. Hope that helps out.


Just for your reference. I guess I'm not the only newcomer feeling that.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:56 am

elite_hacker wrote:that sux i had to patch the game 2 continue using my account cuz i didnt want to make a new account

anyways how do i hack into a bank and steal like a mil credits cuz i need that much to upgrade my comp and i have like 10 bank accounts


That's from the first non-FAQ topic in the Hints and Tips section, just for your reference. So you went back nearly a month to find your example, I had to go back a few hours. :)
Last edited by Stewsburntmonkey on Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby nightperson » Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:02 am

Hey, I just read the one you quoted about an hour ago. Actually, I found another one without punctuation under the Future Forum. The guy says that he is hacker. He is funny. <LOL>

:D Be fair! Not every newcomer would speak up.

I guess most of people would just leave without leaving any comment. Why bother to comment if he is not going to stay?

I wasn't looking for example. I have been reading thru other parts of the forum to see if anything interesting, then that post popped up. :)

I just realized that I bought the game two years ago, according to my registered date of the forum. I only posted two posts by then. My game kept crashing and I quit playing after Introversion told me the bug was unresolvable. Anyway, it means I bought the game before SF went bankrupt. According to what DarkSun said, I should be able to play with the mods then. Right?? Please say yes!! :lol:
Last edited by nightperson on Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ReflectingGod » Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:41 am

If your version of the game is from SF, regardless of whether you bought if before or after they went bankrupt, I don't think it will work with the mods.
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Postby xMs » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:22 pm

*rubs eyes*
Warn me if there are any more huge posts OK!?

I haven't even had breakfast yet.
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Postby Mr. Roboto » Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:39 pm

ReflectingGod wrote:If your version of the game is from SF, regardless of whether you bought if before or after they went bankrupt, I don't think it will work with the mods.

It won't. SF dicked the code.

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