Uplink 2

[eitje]

I would say hundreds of connections is trivial. A real server should be able to handle thousands of connections.

i KNEW you were going to say that! i just knew it!

it's a pretty typical thing for people to fall back on when talking about Java. however, it's no trivial task to keep something like that running smoothly, especially when you're talking about hundreds of people all manipulating and viewing the same data sets.

which, afterall, uplink 2 would have to be able to do. and since earlier no one disagreed that it was non-trivial to write uplink 2 (with enhanced network supp0rtage!!), i would have to disagree with that heinous statement at this time.

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all languages will always be around. even though i joked about fortran, i know several mechanical & civil engineers that had to take fortran programming classes in college. why? who knows. but java is a powerful tool, should not be dismissed as a possible solution for uplink 2 (hehe), and is not as sluggish as people commonly misconceive. check out eclipse.org and their SWT interface tools for some neat stuff in that regard.

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AI huh? i took a few classes back in the day. language recognition was always my big focus, but i also wrote this awesome program for a real life robot (half a decade ago...). it learned how to stand, and jump - it never figured out walking, though. i think it was a start state issue... :/

i'm sure things have changed since then.

[phyreskull]

Hmmm... this project is really starting to sound like it's going somewhere. I'd be much more interested in it if it was converted to VB.NET before it's too late. Partly because VB.NET is still VB, to some degree. It also has much better support for objects. Also, from .NET 2005 you can mix and match C# source with VB.NET, so that it can be slowly switched from being mostly VB to mostly C# to all C#, which would be better than nothing.

Yes, I suppose I agree that C++ is best for writing serious apps, but I would be interested to see any Uplink 2 or Uplink Online project getting off the ground. I might even be prepared to help code it...

[Stewsburntmonkey]

it's a pretty typical thing for people to fall back on when talking about Java. however, it's no trivial task to keep something like that running smoothly, especially when you're talking about hundreds of people all manipulating and viewing the same data sets.

I have yet to see a single user Java program that fits my idea of "running smoothly", so until people can get single user programs working to my standards in Java I don't really care what they do with multiple user programs as they can be no better.

[eitje]

well, i guess you'll just have to remain in ignorance until i've finished uplink 2 entirely in java.

seriously, though... if i could release my last company's source code to you, or even give you access to the product, i would. needless to say, i can't, so we're just going to have to bench this discussion - i doubt any quantity of proof i deliver will be enough to unseat your bias against VM-based languages.

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now, back to vb-link... .net? that's the ticket!

[Stewsburntmonkey]

Don't get me wrong though, I love Java. It is a very clean language. It has nearly perfect documentation and it is very easy to code. I just don't think it is a realistic replacement for languages like C/C++ in high performance applications.

[Rkiver]

well, i guess you'll just have to remain in ignorance until i've finished uplink 2 entirely in java.

seriously, though... if i could release my last company's source code to you, or even give you access to the product, i would. needless to say, i can't, so we're just going to have to bench this discussion - i doubt any quantity of proof i deliver will be enough to unseat your bias against VM-based languages.

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now, back to vb-link... .net? that's the ticket!

I, like may others, wont hold my breath waiting. In fact coolsi said it best already regarding the coding.

[Deepsmeg]

I must say, the biggest problem with VB.NET, apart from the IDE sometimes wanting to take up 150MB RAM for no reason, has to be how deceptively similar it is to VB.
I love how you do old style file access...
Microsoft.VisualBasic.IO.File.Open or something along those lines.
Java is inherently crap at running, because it's made by a hardware manufacturer.
"All my Java apps are running like shit!"
"Time to buy a new system then!"

[eitje]

you're a bunch of codgers, i say! grumpy old codgers!
let the boy dream.

[SpacemanPT]

i just had to say something about all of this

so far all I've seen is a lot of people (apart from 1 or 2) that really don't have a clue about coding. coding takes time and patience and what ever you may think about this guys attempts, at least he's trying.

one thing is true VB really isn't good to do something serious. it's a really good way to create applications to handle DBs but appart from that I really don't know anything else that VB can do really good I'm sure it can do a lot more but I think it would take too much coding for you to make things that could be done using real classes not modules (I think that those are something like "virtual classes" but not the same as classes)

I've been coding for almost 10 years now... I've done coding in Basic, Pascal, Cobol, C, Visual Basic, Delphi, C++, Java, java's ASM (that does exist, it's ASM for a virtual Java CPU that was designed, maybe that's the one used on Java enabled cell-phones now) I've even done coding in Lisp and Eiffel (almost unkown to many coders... it has a free version just try it www.eiffel.com)

Daz if you really want to learn c++ try learning a little of java first, java is not that great, but it's easier to learn java and later c++.

java has a problem... wait, not a problem... a lot of problems
-1st it can make a P4 look like a P2 (that's because that it emulates the JAVA virtual CPU)
-2nd if you use complex data structures like I do, you'll find your self always crashing against a "number of pointers" limit (yeeessss!!! the good old "Out of Memory" error *with a Monty Burns voice* I think that was 1GB of RAM I had )
You can read more about it if your interested, It's not a real memory issue.
-and 3rd since Java handles the pointers deleting process, it spends half the CPUs time trying to figure out if your pointers are still beeing used (the so called "garbage collector").

so eitje, don't get me wrong but as in my country we say... I'm not going to stand and wait for your Uplink 2, let me just take a seat...
Yes it can be done but if you try to make it worth the time It may come back to take you time away (CPU time that is heheheh) every application made in java has that same problem.

anyway java its a great way to start learning how to use coding with Classes, You can make learnning it easier if you use BlueJ (it's something like a code testing plataform)

later you can try to code in c++ with Trolltechs QT library (free for linux the last time I checked) I've used it sometime to create simple client-server conections... the down side, everyone needs to have QT installed in order to use anything created with it (just like DirectX) great for learnning anyway.

just don't give up Daz

wished more of you guys had the guts to try and learn not just stand waiting for others to fall

[Deepsmeg]

so far all I've seen is a lot of people (apart from 1 or 2) that really don't have a clue about coding.

one thing is true VB really isn't good to do something serious. it's a really good way to create applications to handle DBs but appart from that I really don't know anything else that VB can do really good I'm sure it can do a lot more but I think it would take too much coding for you to make things that could be done using real classes not modules (I think that those are something like "virtual classes" but nt the same as classes)

I do serious applications in VB!
On Thursday, a large company is going to be having a final demo of a system I've developed for them which will then be trialled in Scotland beforebeing spread across the rest of the UK!
This is a key front of house system!
And it's done in VB6!

You're thinking of Class Modules. The things that are objects, rather than snippets of code, have methods, properties and events, and can have multiple instances within the same project.
Sounds fairly classlike to me...

[eitje]

class modules make me sad, because they don't have inheritance.

also, you can control the rate of garbage collection - but if it's really taking half your CPU cycles, or even close to that, your code must be on some sort of massive create/destroy rampage.

i'm done talking about java - i stand firmly by my assertion: use VB.NET, dude!

[TheSCConspiracy]

Most ISPs outlaw making "Wargames" servers, so that's out.

[Rich.Styles]

Has no one realised while every one and their dog is trying to program their own version of uplink 2, everyone or most seem to be "oh no not again" or "not in VB" or "Java? why?", if everyone worked together then maybe, it'd work. unless introversion are doing it but by the lack of any infomation. I'd say its up to us. Work together... likely to get more done that way. AND we might even see it sooner ather than waiting 15 odd years.

[DaZjorz]

...*click*

Switched to Perl.

[Luigi300]

Has no one realised while every one and their dog is trying to program their own version of uplink 2, everyone or most seem to be "oh no not again" or "not in VB" or "Java? why?", if everyone worked together then maybe, it'd work. unless introversion are doing it but by the lack of any infomation. I'd say its up to us. Work together... likely to get more done that way. AND we might even see it sooner ather than waiting 15 odd years.

Because we're lazy gits?