Controversial View on Katrina Aid Request.

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Babylon5
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Postby Babylon5 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:28 pm

I see what you mean Stews, but did you see what I meant?

And is anyone watching channel 4 news right now?
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Postby ToRmEnToR » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:08 pm

Who gives a shit about africa anyways?

You give them money and food and they use it to buy ammo and feed the soldiers. Different people grow there... Their culture and habbits formed over hundreds of years, and it's gonna take at least half as long to fix their sociaty to fit the modern world. I just dont see how the efforts invested in aiding certain parts in africa gonna pay off ot the end.
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Postby Babylon5 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:16 pm

Not sure I agree with that, but, hey, it's your opinion.
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Postby 0utbreak » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:45 pm

Babylon5 wrote:"Bush Panics And Sends In Marines"

On the cover of, I think, Glasgow Herald


1.Bush Sent in the Army National Guard over 40,000 troops to help in aid.

2.(seen in another post) America is not the richest country we are so far in debt its not funny if you call being $7,000,000,000,000 ($7 trillion) in debt being rich think again.

3. This is different then floods in europe over 1 Million people are homeless because new orleans is under 7 feet of water in someplaces and upto 30feet in other places.

4.Thousands are dead they just cant see the bodies because of the flooding and the damage was so great it took the national guard 3 days to even get supplies to the people who needed it most. People got so desperate they would shoot at the helicopters rescuing people because they wanted help, America is in a Crisis this is the by far STRONGEST hurricane in our history and will be in our future history books this is even worse than 9/11 in alot of ways.

5. Bush had a slow response as it took 2 days for him to even call up the troops when it took less than 36 hours to mobilize a large force the the Tsunami in asia and have it on its way.

6. Major oil pipelines where ruptured in this hurricane along with 2 offshore oil rigs and multiple oil refinerys cutting the U.S Supply of oil by alot (We have had to open the Emergency Oil Reserves to even dent the gas prices)

7. Gas Prices have jumped from around $2.50 to over $3 and even $8! in some states.

8. When the Asian Tsunami hit the U.S contributed the most money for them i think the first offer was over $300 Billion in AID and with the rest added in almost $900 Billion was sent to them.

9. The U.S is asking for money and aid to help rebuild and to help clean up there are hundreds of millions of gallons of contaminated water that can cause an unknown amount of diseases and not to mention the 160,000 barrels of oil that spilled into the Mississipi River.

10. The U.S has never had this bad of a disaster and has never had to ask for aid of this proportion all the goverment is asking is for help for Food,Water,Shelter, Etc......

11.As a resident of the USA i know first hand how these people are affected as the state of Mississipi is less than 200 miles away.

And if anyone feels they need to donate to help this please visit the RedCrosse's website.

WWW.REDCROSS.ORG
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Postby Deepsmeg » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:51 pm

0utbreak wrote:$7,000,000,000,000 ($7 trillion)

That's 7 billion...
7 trillion would be 7,000,000,000,000,000,000.
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Postby 0utbreak » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:55 pm

oops ur right thanks lol :o

wait no im right

because 7 billion is:

$700(Hundred)
$7,000(Thousand)
$700,000(Hundred Thousand)
$7,000,000(7 Million)
$7,000,000,000(Billion)
$7,000,000,000,000(Trillion)
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:31 pm

2.(seen in another post) America is not the richest country we are so far in debt its not funny if you call being $7,000,000,000,000 ($7 trillion) in debt being rich think again.


That is 7 trillion in the US. Brits have a different definition of trillion (10^18 as opposed to the American, 10^12). The actual US debt is just a hair shy of 8 trillion.

Rich in this context means Gross National Product. The US has the largest GDP in the world (even larger than the whole of the EU).


this is the by far STRONGEST hurricane in our history and will be in our future history books this is even worse than 9/11 in alot of ways.


This is not the strongest hurricane is US history. Katrina was a category 4 hurricane when it made landfall. In US history there have been 3 category 5 storms to make landfall (Labor Day-1935, Camile-1969, Andrew-1992). Katrina did have a lower pressure than Andrew, but its windspeed was lesser.

The devistation from Katrina was mainly caused by the flooding after the levees gave way. If they had been properly maintained over the last several years (Bush cut federal funding for levee repairs) it is likely the damage would have been far less sevier and far fewer people would have died.

6. Major oil pipelines where ruptured in this hurricane along with 2 offshore oil rigs and multiple oil refinerys cutting the U.S Supply of oil by alot (We have had to open the Emergency Oil Reserves to even dent the gas prices)


The oil is actually not a huge issue, we don't produce all that much to begin with. The major problem is refining. The gulf region is the nations major refining area. Right now we don't have the capacity to refine the oil into gas.

8. When the Asian Tsunami hit the U.S contributed the most money for them i think the first offer was over $300 Billion in AID and with the rest added in almost $900 Billion was sent to them.


The US did not contribute the most money initially (at least not from official government sources). The Australian, German, Japanese and Canadian governments all pledged more money initially. The US has since offered more money (nearly $1 billion (US) ).

The initial offer by the US was $350 million (not billion).




If you are going to cite facts and figure, don't rely on your memory. Do a quick double check.
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Postby Deepsmeg » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:11 am

If you look at it the way it used to be, it makes more sense.
1 million
1 mono-illion
1,000,000

1 billion
1 bi-illion
1,000,000,000,000

1 trillion
1 tri-illion
1,000,000,000,000,000,000

1 quadrillion
1 quadra-illion
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

So you have the base number lots of 000,000.

The Americans like to make stuff sound bigger, so they use smaeller quantities.
That's why what we'd call a billion, an american would call a trillion, cause that sounds a lot bigger.

What we'd call 7 gallons, you'd call 8 gallons. Again, it sounds a lot bigger doesn't it!
if we have 7 billion gallons of oil, you'd call it 8 trillion gallons!
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:51 am

Well the problem is there is very rarely a use of anything above 10^12. It is very rare you ever need to speak of quantities that large in that way. The American system at least makes speaking about large numbers easier. Saying one thousand million is much more convoluted than one billion.

I find it rather stupid that people blame the US for these measurement scales when in almost every instance the US inherited them from Europe.

History lesson:

The two systems of numbering are known as the long scale (that is the one Deepsmeg expounded) and the short scale (the one used in the US and most English speaking countries). The long scale was originally established when numbers were grouped into sections of six digits (thus one million was 1,000000). Billion was originally one million million, thus 1,000000,0000000. It may be obvious that it is hard to read these numbers as there are so many digits grouped together. In the late 1600s the standard notation was changed to use groups of 3 digites (thus one million was 1,000,000). With this change a few scientists in continental Europe decided to refer to 1,000,000,000 as one billion. This keeps the trend of having a new name for each group of 3 digits (thousand, million, billion, etc). This caught on in many places, and was adopted by the US and most other English speaking nations. This was not an American invention. In fact the United States didn't even exist at the time this change was made.
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Postby Deepsmeg » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:31 am

But pretty much it's the americans that force it down everyone else's throat.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:02 am

I wouldn't say that. The rest of the world has never accepted the rest of the American measurement system, so I think it is a bit much to believe the US has the power to force a certain system on the rest of the world. I think you will find the reason the short scale is predominate is that most people prefer the short scale as it is far more practical than the long scale. Anything above what can easily fit in the short scale is generally in the realm of science and metric prefixes or scientific notation would be employed.
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Postby Babylon5 » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:20 pm

How did we start talking about this...?

So, anyway anyone heard about hurricane Katrina?
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Postby Miah » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:11 pm

Depends on what you want to talk about.

Perhaps how Bush was completely oblivious to the sort of aid being given by the salvation army (food and water) when the people (as in, three) were looking for something warm to wear?

Or maybe how President Bush's mother, Barbra Bush, was quoted as saying that for the poor and underprivleged crammed into the Astrodome, that "this is working out quite well for them"?

Or maybe how Bush will be leading the investigation on why it took so long for aid (in other news, Mr. Fox will be investigating the chicken coop disappearences). Or how Bush, while Katrina was unleashing its fury on New Orleans, was instead pitching more partisan politics to Californa?

Maybe you don't want to talk about polictics. Maybe you would like to hear of progress. We can do that too.

For starters, we can mention the fact that the flooded water is basically a biohazard, what with E. coli O157 H7 (about the only strain of it you ever hear of in the news because it's so dangerous) being found in it?

Or how the estimiated time to drain New Orleans completey (not including disinfecting the ground) is three months?

Or maybe you were talking about what happened before that.

Did you know that before the hurricane hit, the government could have taken around a thousand more people to safety by used school buses, but instead left both, the people and the buses behind?

Did you know I could show you articles to every one of these points by using credible news sources like CNN rather than reading blogs?

I don't mean to be short, but for god's sake, it's not hard to see what's happening in the world. I read the news online. I knew that Katrina would hit New Orleans three days before my state paper even mentioned it. I heard a LOT.

So, what have you heard?
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:27 pm

Or how the reason New Orleans flooded was because Bush had consistantly cut funds to maintain the levees.

Or how FEMA and the homeland security department were clueless about the thousands of people at the convention center dispite 24/7 live TV coverage on all major networks broadcasting pictures and interviews with these people. How infuriating is it that the organizations that are supposed to be ensuring the safety of the United States know less about what is going on than the average citizen (anywhere in the world) who watches 5 minutes on news coverage? It is one thing for politicians to bicker and such. But this is incompetence on a level that is truly incomprehensible.

This has not always been the case by the way. Before Bush came into office the levees were in decent if not perfect condition. FEMA was a fully capable agency headed by someone who knew what he was doing. And poverty was far less of a problem than it is now. Under Clinton the US poverty rate steadily decreased; Bush has had 4 years of rising povery.

People say we shouldn't blame Bush, but Bush's leadership killed thousands of people. In fact it looks like Bush will have caused more US civilian deaths than Al Qaeda. Right now Bush is the greatest danger to Americans (and the world).
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Postby edd8990 » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:40 pm

There is only one course of action that any upstanding and democratic individual can suggest.

OVERTHROW THE SON OF A BITCH. REBEL!

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