Controversial View on Katrina Aid Request.

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Controversial View on Katrina Aid Request.

Postby edd8990 » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:37 pm

OK. I've been debating with myself over whether to say this, because it's going to be seen as evil by some of you, but I decided I have to say it to be true to myself.

America has asked the EU for aid (Here)

Now, America has been cutting its aid to the third world consistently for many years. At Gleneagles they reduced the debt cancellation that we should give to the third world.

Now why, when there are Billions more people dying in Africa who could also benifit from this same Aid, why should we send it to America? It will do the same good wherever it is sent, but surely the Richest country in the world can look after itself better than the destitute in Africa.

Please believe me, I'm not saying the New Orlean's people don't need aid, I'm just wondering why America thinks they deserve it more than anyone else.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:47 pm

Disaster recovery is generally given priority over other aid requests. When natural disaster hits Europe (like floods) aid is provided to Europe (even though Europe is certainly wealthy) when it could go other places less wealthy.

I am rather put off by people who seem to be taking the view that America deserves this sort of disaster. I will the first to criticize the current US administration both in their foreign policy and their response (or lack there of) to this disaster, but that does not change the fact that more than a million people have seen their lives more or less destroyed by this storm.
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Postby edd8990 » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:56 pm

I'm not saying America deserves this. No-one does. I wouldn't even wish it on George Bush.

What I'm saying is Africa is one on going natural disaster (floods, droughts etc.) And yet it is constantly glossed over, and ignored by America.

It just seems to me that the administration is trying to say American lives are more important than any others, which might work in America, but doesn't outside.

America has already spent more money than the whole world raised for the Asian Tsunami.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:30 pm

All America asked for was some prepared meals and some blankets and such supplies. The question is where is this aid going to do the most good. For the most part the problems in Africa are systemic, that is even with aid there are still cronic societal and economic problems that have to be addressed over the long term. Thus while aid to these regions is certainly needed, it can only have a very limited impact. Look at the Oil for Food program in Iraq for example. Billions of dollars were sent to Iraq to help the people there, but very little was accomplished because a huge percentage of the aid was wasted through corruption. This is the same situation in Africa. You cannot just send a few blankets or some prepared meals to Africa, you have to setup elaborate and expensive systems to make sure the aid actually reaches those who need it. Giving aid to developed nations like the US, you can be assured that nearly all of the aid will get to those who need it. Thus the aid has a much greater impact. If you value all human life equally, then you would have to support aid to developed nations, since the aid given to developed nations is far more effective than that given to developing nations.
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Postby Ozymandias IV » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:48 am

Also, America may be the richest country, but do you think the middle and upper classes are the ones who weren't able to evacuate? No, the people who were left behind were mostly black, mostly poor, and are now living in practically 3rd world conditions.
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Postby mr dr » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:23 am

as an american i can surely agree that our system is royaly fucked. no pun intended. dont take this the wrong way, but we realy don't need help from other country's. by that i mean, we should be able to take some of our funds and use them for disaster relief support. it is bullshit that we are telling other countries that we need the money we have been using on them, that they will have to wait on it for a while more while we use it. complete bullshit. i fuckin hate this shit, eventhough i work for these idiots who are so concetes(sp) that they care more about our country, then helping the people who really need it. this whole disaster releif bullshit is just fucked. the people trying to recover from the hurricane dont have it as bad as the news makes it.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:30 am

The US isn't asking for money. . . It is asking for supplies. The US could certainly make these supplies (prepared meals, blankets, generators, etc) but that would take time. Other nations have stocks of these supplies that they can send immediately. This aid is not being requested because the US can't do something, it is being requested because the US can't do things fast enough. Or rather, it would be better to have these supplies sooner rather than later.
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Postby Babylon5 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:34 pm

I agree.

America has ignored Africa, and now they are wanting the supplies.

I know not from Africa but see what I mean?
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:34 pm

America has not ignored Africa. The US is by far the greatest contributor of African aid. Certainly the US doesn't give a much per capita to Africa (or in aid overall), but to say the US ignores Africa is an amazingly inaccurate statement.
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Postby edd8990 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:55 pm

America gives less as a % GDP than any other developed nation. The only reason they give more is because they have. Infact I believe Finland gives the most. A Country with Americas ecconomy should be donating enough to pay for Aids drugs for every sufferer in Afroca. Instead they give the minimum they can get away with.
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Postby Babylon5 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:02 pm

"Bush Panics And Sends In Marines"

On the cover of, I think, Glasgow Herald
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:25 pm

edd8990 wrote:America gives less as a % GDP than any other developed nation. The only reason they give more is because they have. Infact I believe Finland gives the most. A Country with Americas ecconomy should be donating enough to pay for Aids drugs for every sufferer in Afroca. Instead they give the minimum they can get away with.


Actually Italy gives less than the US as a percentage of GDP. Japan give about the same amount. One of the major issues it that the US has a much lower national tax than European nations do. Thus taxes are a much smaller percentage of GDP. However Americans give far more per capita in private donations than virtually any other nation on earth. In fact the private donations from America are more than double the amount of America's government aid. Bill Gates alone give more per year than several European nations. People rarely take into account the massive amount of private aid that flows from the US. If this is taken into account the US is one of the most generous nations (if not the most generous nation) per capita in the world. And given that most of this is entirely voluntary (and not taken from mandatory taxes) it really says a lot about the American spirit.
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Postby Babylon5 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:47 pm

And does George Bush donate much?

If he doesn't, then I beleive there should be an absolute minimum that presidents have to donate.

Or more specifically, Queens, Kings etc.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:16 pm

Babylon5 wrote:And does George Bush donate much?

If he doesn't, then I beleive there should be an absolute minimum that presidents have to donate.

Or more specifically, Queens, Kings etc.


I don't see how that matters, but. . .

In 2003 Bush and his wife gave $68,360 to charity.

I would suspect this is at least comparable to what Tony Blair or Jack McConnell give. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush handily out gave both of these leaders though.

Giving that is mandatory, is not giving. The fact is Americans are given the freedom (through lesser taxes) to spend money how they see fit (for better or worse). The fact that most Americans give a good deal of their money away entirely by choice says a great deal about the American character.
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Postby AgentFade » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:22 pm

I agree with that 100%. It's a d*** shame how Katrina just gave N.O. a sucker punch right in the balls.
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