What do you want to see in a new hacking sim?

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Postby Rkiver » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:48 pm

Neoecs wrote:If you are just trying to insult or flame me, just dont write in the thread, that's offtopic. And I know what I'm doing..

[Edit] Rkiver, you seems to be like, the best game maker in the world? Am I right? Please, tell me where to start then.


Clearly you know what you are doing, telling people in a forum you've just joined how to act in their community. News flash, you are new here, we owe you nothing.

Now I never ever claimed I was the best game maker in the world. I do however have experience in coding and in beta testing. So far everything you have said with regards to games has shown a clear lack of any real knowledge on your part. It is not for me to prove I know how to make games, as I am not the one claiming I can. You however are a different story. And you will find you have an uphill struggle on your hands trying to impress us.

Edit: You also claim that hackthissite is good.....this clearly does not bode well for you my sweedish friend.
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Postby ODDin » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:04 pm

Well, I most certainly am not the best game maker in the world, and it is even quite debatable whether I am a game maker to begin with, but in my humble opinion, if you start working on a game and:
1) You aren't taking another game as basis to your game, at least as a start and a general grasp of how things work. That's the case with the more blatant Uplink clones.
2) You're intending of getting this game somewhere, and not just play around and experiment with coding, designing, drawing etc.
then you should NOT begin with the cosmetics (GUI) or the real coding right away.

That is, if you suddenly have a brilliant idea, you can write it down, but you do not sit and work on it as your primary goal.
What you do is planning out exactly how the game works. What are the goals, what does the player do (but software, hack computers), how does he do it, how are computer systems built, how are the defense systems built, etc.
If necessary, you study a bit on the needed subject. That is, if you're doing a game on hacking, it's a good idea to try and read a bit about hacking, computers, or whatever information you feel you might need or currently lack.
Then, when you get at least a vague understanding of how the game actually plays, you can start working on the needed algorithms, design the specific structure of all the computer systems, software, banks, money, whatever; draw out a VERY general GUI (where are the buttons located and stuff like that)...

You can leave the big GUI issues to later points, and start actually coding here, I believe.
If other people work on graphics, however, you can leave the work to them, and put it into your program whenever they send you their finished material (if it's not too much work).


Hmm... that's what I've been thinking about, at least, having little to none experience in making games.
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Postby Neoecs » Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:26 pm

ODDin, thank you. Your post was by the way the most serious post in this thread ever. And you are right, I will do it your way. Stupid by me..
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Postby Rkiver » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:21 pm

Neoecs wrote:ODDin, thank you. Your post was by the way the most serious post in this thread ever. And you are right, I will do it your way. Stupid by me..


Someone who admits to knowing nothing gives someone who claims to know how to make games the right way to do it. Oh this is hilarious. Far better then beno and his forums.
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Re: What do you want to see in a new hacking sim?

Postby The Eye_uplink » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:25 am

Hello Neoecs

Well then, you have reached the point that many before you have reached - namely wanting to make a hacking sim in the period of euphoria that follows having played Uplink :wink: Most of those before you did not get much beyond this point, however enthusiastically they announced there soon-to-be-completed super-hacking-simulator, which is part of the reason as to why you are seeing a certain lack of enthusiasm for your project among most of the veterans of this forum :wink:

In any case, if you are truly set on this project, then you must, first of all, keep in mind Edison's words: "Success is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration." as these words go for software development as well! :P Secondly, right now you are probably feeling extremely enthusiastic about this project, feeling that it should take a few weeks at most - experience shows however, that making any software beyond the complexity of, say, a simple calculator, takes time, time, and TIME! 8)

If you are still with me, then let me give you some advice - firstly, read the advice listed by Stewsburntmonkey and ODDin about their insights in the software development process - they made some good points!

In general, you need three basic things to succeed, not counting skill at programming and the patience and dedication to actually complete the project after the first enthusiasm has worn off:

Firstly, you need a basic concept, which you have: You want to make a hacking simulator.

Secondly, you need a solid design - what this means, is that you have to plan how your game is going to be - what can the player do, how does it "work", etc. As you get an idea of how your game is going to work, some ideas for the GUI should emerge from these.

Thirdly, you need to implement your design, eg. you sit down and use those programming skills you mentioned earlier 8). This is where your comment about wanting to have something to show comes into the picture - sometimes it is most practically to start by designing the "framework"/skeleton of your application, and then implement this - this means you can test it, and see if it works - if it do, then you go BACK and design some more - perhaps add a few details you skipped earlier - then you implement these, and test your improved game - then you return to design, correct any design-decisions that did not work out, and add some more content - you bounce back and forth in this way until either you are satisfied (not very likely) or decide that you have more important things to do ( much more likely :lol: ).

Did this process seem overly complicated and boring to your? If so, well GOOD :P Software developers does not spend years and years reading about and perfecting these processes for the fun of it, but because a solid developing process makes it MUCH more likely that they will eventually end up with a piece of software that anyone else will want to use :wink: Programming and adlibbing as you go, usually results in a final product that is buggy, and incoherent, and TERRIBLE to debug WHEN, not IF, bugs are discovered :)

If you still want to go ahead on this project, well good luck then! Even if you do not eventually succeed, I'm sure you will learn a lot from it. But seriously, software development is hard work - if you read the developer diaries made by Chris, you can get a glimpse of just how much work did go into making Uplink - there are even some early testversions on the collectors disc (and the devCD too, as I recall), which demonstrates the "make the software bit by bit to see if the design holds" principle I mentioned.

Final notes: To Neoecs: I am aware that I did not give you any design suggestions as such, and neither did I mention any features - this is because I think you have to have at least a good grasp of what you want to do with this project - if you have no idea at all of how you wish your game to be, I would advice that you joined an existing project as a coder instead :) To everyone else, sorry for the long post, but someone had to do it 8) :wink:

- The Eye
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Postby sweaty bob » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:36 am

You The Eye, have way too much time on your hands to post that much.
:shock:
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Postby D3adKl0wn » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:56 am

O.K. First off, I know NOTHING about programming, tho i do dabble in graphic design, when my computer isn't acting like a bitch (and she is now). But I was just thinking, Neoecs, maybe you should get the DevCD and make a really good mod for Uplink?? I don't know for sure, but it seems like a logical place to begin, because as you have said, your other games haven't gotten on their own 2 feet yet, let alone get off the ground. If you were to make a (and i say again "REALLY GOOD") Mod for Uplink i'm sure there would be much support from the community, and if/when you released your full hacking sim afterwards, maybe people would take you more seriously. :)
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:12 am

To be honest, I think making a really good MOD for Uplink would be harder than writing a new hacking sim from scratch. The code isn't great as it is, and trying to figure out someone elses code is neither fun nor generally easy.
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Postby Deepsmeg » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:17 am

Are you planning on making your own forum for this hacking game?

Mas, hush.
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Postby D3adKl0wn » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:38 am

Stewsburntmonkey wrote:To be honest, I think making a really good MOD for Uplink would be harder than writing a new hacking sim from scratch. The code isn't great as it is, and trying to figure out someone elses code is neither fun nor generally easy.


Very good point, i was just thinking that it'd be easier to start with something, rather than nothing... shows what i know.. lol :roll:
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Cybernetics

Postby N0ught » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:28 am

I would like to see cyberware, at least in an Uplink Mod. :)

I really think having to pay for implants would help expand the Uplink universe. Interface jacks, neural processors, optical enhancements; they could all increase the efficiency of your gateway.

I know Uplink is set in 2010, but with the Dev CD, someone could conceivably turn the clock forward.

I am willing to think-tank this idea more if anyone is interested.
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Re: Cybernetics

Postby Rkiver » Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:37 am

N0ught wrote:I would like to see cyberware, at least in an Uplink Mod. :)

I really think having to pay for implants would help expand the Uplink universe. Interface jacks, neural processors, optical enhancements; they could all increase the efficiency of your gateway.

I know Uplink is set in 2010, but with the Dev CD, someone could conceivably turn the clock forward.

I am willing to think-tank this idea more if anyone is interested.


I'll admit I was looking into adding that into the mod I have been plugging away at for the past.....erm....long while actually. Could be interesting, but to what degree would it affect gameplay and what not, just working that out would be fun. Mind you, the coding for Uplink.....well to be honest it is not exactly plain sailing.....
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:38 pm

That'd be more along the lines of Neuromancer, which was a very cool game. It would be interesting to see a modern take on that type of game. :)
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Postby NeoThermic » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:14 pm

TimTim wrote:Some will argue these don't mean anything, some will but hey you can't please everyone

Me:
Joined: 17 Apr 2002
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You:
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 12


The dates mean nothing because they are inaccurate. I've done a quick check (muhahahaha!), here's the exact dates:
TimTim - Wed Apr 17 20:42:57 2002 GMT
Neoecs - Sat Mar 05 14:10:37 2005 GMT

As for the *actual* topic, I've got some salt here to take it with...

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Cybernetics

Postby N0ught » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:06 pm

Well, as I understand it (not being much of a programmer), big-name computer software companies have the code in their games re-organized before shipping... has anyone considered doing this using the DevCD? Not making a Mod with it, but simply reworking the Uplink game code, so there is "a place for everything and everything in its place"?

And regarding the "Cybernetics" idea (*takes a deep breath*):

An optional storyline could be triggered if the agent made it, say, into the top 5 (?) on Uplink rankings.

A company would contact the agent, offering a "unique business opportunity" in exchange for downloading a database from a high-security government server.

Upon completion of the mission, the company would reveal that what the agent was stealing was top-secret cybernetic research, which the company is now using to experiment with cybernetic implants.

The next mission (after maybe a month?) could be to change the status of 4 particular subjects to "deceased" in the SSD, since the company requires their services as "volunteers" for cybernetic research.

For the next mission (The storyline should be as spread out as possible, to allow maximum suspense) the company would reveal that they have become worried about one of their loud-mouthed executives. They fear he may compromise the project, which they are not willing to allow. They require the agent to frame the culprit for hacking into their OWN central mainframe and destroying it. Everything the executive could have had access to will then be officially nonexistent. They would assure the agent that all research has been backed up at another location, and as payment, they would offer the agent the executive position in his stead! This would basically mean the agent will recieve occasional emails from their "aide" at the company, letting them know about the progress of the project, and 100000 (?) credits per month as salary (I really like this idea - an actual "job" in Uplink!).

In 3 months, the company will announce that it has finally perfected "Cyberware". It will offer the agent exclusive access to implants at an "executive discount" (still 10 times the price of gateway hardware). They will warn the agent to keep this technology an utter secret - they would not have their products fall into the wrong hands.

The cybernetic implants would function exactly the same as the highest quality ones for gateways, only they cannot be replaced, and would not be destroyed if you blew up your gateway.

However, if you have even one implant, and DO get caught by the feds, there should be an exploding sound (for effect), and your "game over" screen should say that the company you worked for detonated a powerful explosive they secretly installed in your skull along with your implants, killing you and the agents who captured you (they warned you to keep it secret, didn't they?).

There should be only 3 kinds of Cyberware:

A "Neural Interface Jack" (NIJ) would be essentially a covert and permanent 8 Gq (or whatever) modem, wired into the base of your skull. This would be the most essential cyberware... without it, any other installed cyberware would not work, since it has no way to interface with the gateway. The maximum number of NIJ's would be 1.

A "Neural Processor" (NP) would be a permanent 200 ghz processor, wired into the brain, which would work in concord with your gateway just as if you had added another processor slot! The maximum number of NP's would be 4.

A "Neural Storage Device" (NSD) would be a permanent 8 Gq memory chip, wired into the brain, which would work in concord with your gateway just as if you had added another memory slot! The maximum number of NSD's would be 8.

A gateway would still be required for hacking.

So basically, at the best, you would wind up with a very expensive, Kronos Corp (good name for the company you work for) 80-860 gateway in your head, which works hand in hand with your own gateway. Nice eh?

Best of all, you wouldn't even have to hack anymore, unless you wanted to, due to your high salary. You could just sit back and watch revelation break out if you wanted! OR you could become an uber-hacker and totally rise to the top on either side of the main storyline.

Its an idea...

A wonderful, wonderful idea! :D

What do you think?

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