Does it really matter?

Anything and Everything about Uplink

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Zhoul
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Does it really matter?

Postby Zhoul » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:03 am

I noticed that the last update to this game was in 2002. Does it really even matter if we find more bugs, as it appears we will NEVER get another update?

This game had so much potential, but seems someone dropped the ball approx. 3 years ago. I bought (for 5 bux) this game from a friend who got completely sick of all the buggyness of the game, and even with a backup program running, I too am getting fed up with it (nearly to the point where I start my own war games and blow up the entirety of the world in spite).

The fact that any coder can sell this game and still sleep at night, with no intention on ever updating it sickens me. Please, unsicken me and give us all hope.

Another great idea would be to open source the game itself. Some of these bugs could easily be fixed with fresh eyes looking into the code, but seeing as they still think this game is worth the wrapper it is sold in, I highly doubt that as well.

So... Much... Potential...

Wasted.

- A very pissed off 2nd hand customer.
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Postby AnthonyS » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:05 am

The source code has been released, under a semi-restrictive licence, in the form of the "DevCD"
A lot of the bugs have been addressed in various 'mods' made from the DevCD.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:10 am

Also the fact that this is was coded by a single guy means it is not going to be as polished as most mass market games. But given that many mass market games are just as buggy, if not more so, I think you may be a tad too critical here.
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Postby Zhoul » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:39 am

My apologies ;)

Not 5 minutes ago, I found Onlink and postings on it. Just installed and am begining to mess around with it now. Until then, however, All I saw 'out there' were customers with massive buggyness issues with no hope of 'repair'.

Also the fact that this is was coded by a single guy means it is not going to be as polished as most mass market games. But given that many mass market games are just as buggy, if not more so, I think you may be a tad too critical here.


The reason most mass market games are buggy is because so many hands are 'in the pot'. It's simply insane trying to get a bunch of guys who don't know (or like?) eachother, to code in harmony. I would expect that since only 1 person 'knew' the base code, they could more easily fix the bugs they encounter. Once again, It's silly to release for sale, a game with so many 'up front' bugs. I don't mean those 'very odd but far and few between' bugs, but simple stuff, such as installation.

Within 15 minutes of playing v1.31, I encountered at least 8-10 bugs which either caused me to crash and reload, or have to restart my game completely.

The only saving grace at this point are mods such as Onlink, but even that has 'bugged' out on me in the first 15 minutes of play.

Really: What was trying to be accomplished here is virtuious and very cool. It's execution however is poor, and support after it's birth appears slim.

I understand that one person can't be expected to support and patch a game for years after it's release but even I'd be willing to buy Uplink 2.0, if it didn't force me to restart my month long game because I accidentally ran into bug 5132453 out of 12305981025918.

Understand that my anger here is fueled by about 10 'new games' because of buggyness. All those hours, gone. Not because I did something stupid, but because the coder did ;)
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:31 am

Zhoul wrote:My apologies ;)

Not 5 minutes ago, I found Onlink and postings on it. Just installed and am begining to mess around with it now. Until then, however, All I saw 'out there' were customers with massive buggyness issues with no hope of 'repair'.

Also the fact that this is was coded by a single guy means it is not going to be as polished as most mass market games. But given that many mass market games are just as buggy, if not more so, I think you may be a tad too critical here.


The reason most mass market games are buggy is because so many hands are 'in the pot'. It's simply insane trying to get a bunch of guys who don't know (or like?) eachother, to code in harmony. I would expect that since only 1 person 'knew' the base code, they could more easily fix the bugs they encounter. Once again, It's silly to release for sale, a game with so many 'up front' bugs. I don't mean those 'very odd but far and few between' bugs, but simple stuff, such as installation.

Within 15 minutes of playing v1.31, I encountered at least 8-10 bugs which either caused me to crash and reload, or have to restart my game completely.

The only saving grace at this point are mods such as Onlink, but even that has 'bugged' out on me in the first 15 minutes of play.

Really: What was trying to be accomplished here is virtuious and very cool. It's execution however is poor, and support after it's birth appears slim.

I understand that one person can't be expected to support and patch a game for years after it's release but even I'd be willing to buy Uplink 2.0, if it didn't force me to restart my month long game because I accidentally ran into bug 5132453 out of 12305981025918.

Understand that my anger here is fueled by about 10 'new games' because of buggyness. All those hours, gone. Not because I did something stupid, but because the coder did ;)


Well games are virtually never coded by people who don't know each other. . .

How are the three guys who originally made Uplink supposed to provide support to everyone who needs it? That is why the forums are here and that is why they released the DevCD with the Uplink source code so that the community can take up some of the responcibility. And if you are getting that many bugs there is something wrong. While this game does have some bugs, most are minor and none should occur that often.

This is the price you pay for being on the edge. Indie music doesn't have the production value of more mainstream music, but that is part of its charm. Avante Guarde art can be downright scarry at times it is so bad, but that is part of its fun. Independant games are buggy and poorly supported, but that's their nature.

In any event given that Uplink can be "beaten" in maybe an hour tops, having to restart never costs you all that much. :)
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Postby ReflectingGod » Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:57 am

8-10 bugs in 15 minutes? I never encountered that many in version 1.0, so I think you are exaggerating a little...
ME!

Procrastination - Hard work often pays of after time, but laziness always pays off now!

**Bibo ergo sum!**
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Postby Darksun » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:48 pm

I've never had any game breaking bugs in v1.31, except occasionally when I use dodgy mods (I'm looking at you PunisherBass! :P)
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Postby Flamekebab » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:22 pm

I think the error is with YOUR computer, as Uplink very rarely messes up after being patched on either of my computers, Windows and Linux respectively.
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Postby Montyphy » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:29 pm

It doesn't necessarily have to be his computer. The problem could lie within his actions i.e. keeps trying to do something which crashes the game.
Uplink help: Check out the Guide or FAQ.
Latest Uplink patch is v1.55.
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Postby Flamekebab » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:32 pm

Ah, yes, I suppose.

Uplink does sometimes crash on me, but it was very rare.
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Postby Montyphy » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:36 pm

ditto.
Uplink help: Check out the Guide or FAQ.

Latest Uplink patch is v1.55.
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Postby Memo » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:09 pm

Understand that my anger here is fueled by about 10 'new games' because of buggyness. All those hours, gone. Not because I did something stupid, but because the coder did :wink:


I'd say that the constructive things the coder accomplished in this case more than outweighs the stupid ones. >.<
If you had even a remote idea of what it takes to code and support a project of this order of magnitude, you would not have written that remark.

EDIT: I agree that the game should be released freely under the GPL; however unlikely that is to happen.
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Postby doormat » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:40 pm

Zhoul:

Where did you buy your copy of uplink?

Wasn't trygames, was it? :wink:
If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?
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Postby Zhoul » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:49 pm

Wow, lots to reply to here...

Well games are virtually never coded by people who don't know each other. . .


Think of all the games out there on the market today. As sad as it is, the market is now being over-taken by massive companies such as SoE (Sony Online Entertainment) and the like. This means that they hire a shitload of people to do a project, people who don't know eachother, then force their marketing ideals upon them. They eventually meet one another, but they did not come together to create the game, they were brought together.

That is why the forums are here and that is why they released the DevCD with the Uplink source code so that the community can take up some of the responcibility.


They got lazy and decided to make even more money by selling the already shitty code. If they released this Dev CD free of charge, then I would find the virtue in that.

The way I look at it: They are giving me a game that crashes constantly and instead of supporting it properly, they wish to charge me more money, so I can fix it myself.

Give me a few minutes to laugh wildly, chuckle, cool down then laugh once more.

....

Ok... Next subject:

This is the price you pay for being on the edge.


Lets take a look at games that are the same size as Uplink:
Doom 2 (plus an expansion or two)
Quake 1
hmmm, cant think of any more that ring in around the 30-60 meg limit, its been so long.

What I can say is: I cannot remember a day that Quake, Doom or any of the like crashed on me. Not to say that they didn't, but I surely can't recount a time they did. Both more complex and more demanding in the graphical department as well.



In any event given that Uplink can be "beaten" in maybe an hour tops, having to restart never costs you all that much.


I enjoy playing this game in 'real time'. I'll afk for an hour or two to get some stuff done around the house, and come back to check on the news side of things, or finish a hack job I started a while back. So you can see where it would take up to a month at least, to complete any one game.


8-10 bugs in 15 minutes? I never encountered that many in version 1.0, so I think you are exaggerating a little...


Maybe a little. Let me recount.
1. Installation on XP - The installer would crash with a very non descriptive error on an XP machine I have here. I was able to install it on a 2k box I have, then move the files over. I have later installed it on my *other* xp box, but it still refuses to install on my main box.
2. While walking through the tutorial the second time (this, 10 minutes into the game, after first crash), I completed a step just barley out of order. I believe I copied the file right before it asked me to, and the tutorial would not recognise the fact I had done this, thus I had to restart the tutorial (and game) over.
3. At first, I did things entirely too fast, speeding up time, I noticed that if I had too many processors, the network side of this program WILL crash. So now: If I want to view news and such via the network connection, I have to limit myself to around 4-6? processors.
4. Network Code: This, in general is super buggy. If I quit the game on server side, the client side out-right crashes. If I try to reconnect in any way , it crashes. The game is too stupid to remember the last computer I connected to, so I have to type it in each time.
5. After approx 20 minutes of gameplay the third time around, the network client crashed. I restarted the game to reconnect it and now the server side will not load that profile, crashing with an inspecific error.
6. Every time my 2k box tries to close Uplink, it crashes with an inspecific error, not saving any setting I changed display wise (so I've had to set these settings on an XP machine, then copy the option file over).
7. Early on, when asked to delete a file from a corp system, I tried using the console commands, because I am indeed a console junky. I used the delete command, but this only wiped every single file out of the system, and not the one I specified. WTFUX? Anyhow, later that game, prior to crashing for whatever reason, I was asked in a later mission to retrieve a file that I had deleted at least 3 game days ago, thus I had to abandon the mission (and like I said, crashed 5 minutes after that anyhow).

So thats 7 I can think of now... 8-10 may have been an exaggeration, but I'm sure if I thought hard enough, I could come up with 1-2 more bugs I encountered in the first 15-20 minutes of play on more then 2-3 systems.


I've never had any game breaking bugs in v1.31, except occasionally when I use dodgy mods (I'm looking at you PunisherBass! )

I'd love to get ahold of whatever 1.31 copy you have, because installing from the CD, then updating to 1.31 from the patch from the website seems to be different... /shrug

I think the error is with YOUR computer, as Uplink very rarely messes up after being patched on either of my computers, Windows and Linux respectively.

All 3 of them? I'm a tech by trade, a coder at heart. I dont use any virus scanners or software firewalls and run a very tight ship on my hardware firewall. I'm pretty sure, something is up with the game when 3 PC's all have very odd errors at different times.


It doesn't necessarily have to be his computer. The problem could lie within his actions i.e. keeps trying to do something which crashes the game.

Ahh, an observation worth it's bits and bytes. You are very correct. I find, as I play more, that I am VERY limited in what I can do VS what the program "lets" you do. I have to be VERY careful in my actions, not to 'piss off' the game and cause it to crash. Every day, I find at least 1 more thing I can't do, that Uplink LETS us do.


I'd say that the constructive things the coder accomplished in this case more than outweighs the stupid ones. >.<
If you had even a remote idea of what it takes to code and support a project of this order of magnitude, you would not have written that remark.

Come on! This isn't an MMORPG and even Everquest/Planetside crash on me less then this game does. This game weighs in around 60 megs, installed and patched. EQ and Planetside both extend far past 4 gigs each. One place these games do meet up, however, is the fact that the designers expect me to pay them more money to fix their own bugs. However, Uplink takes it a step further and asks me to not only pay, but to fix it my damn self.

Side Note: I'm a coder, I know what it takes to make a game of this... minor, magnitude. You're turning a mole hill into a mountain which is the very same thing the coder(s) of this game did. Made a lot of things a lot more complex then they need be, causing catastrophic events (And errors heheh).

Where did you buy your copy of uplink?

Wasn't trygames, was it?


As I stated before...

I bought (for 5 bux) this game from a friend who got completely sick of all the buggyness of the game, and even with a backup program running, I too am getting fed up with it (nearly to the point where I start my own war games and blow up the entirety of the world in spite).


- Zhoul
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:34 pm

Zhoul wrote:Think of all the games out there on the market today. As sad as it is, the market is now being over-taken by massive companies such as SoE (Sony Online Entertainment) and the like. This means that they hire a shitload of people to do a project, people who don't know eachother, then force their marketing ideals upon them. They eventually meet one another, but they did not come together to create the game, they were brought together.


Actually even in big companies the core programming team is generally small and close-knit.

They got lazy and decided to make even more money by selling the already shitty code. If they released this Dev CD free of charge, then I would find the virtue in that.


No, they realised that they could not handle the support on the game (they had to work on their next project so that the could continue to feed themselves). They had to sell the DevCD to fullfill their contractual obligation to their publishers, they could not opensource it. The price is set to help ensure only legitimate people get hold of it (not some pirate who simply wants to circumvent the password protection or whatever). Obviously you have very little clue what you are talking about. . .

The way I look at it: They are giving me a game that crashes constantly and instead of supporting it properly, they wish to charge me more money, so I can fix it myself.

Give me a few minutes to laugh wildly, chuckle, cool down then laugh once more.


Umm. . . No, that is not what they did, but whatever. As we have said what you have described is not typical for the game. It would seem at least part of the problem here is on your end. Although I am sure you will deny this and continue to stupidly blame IV.


Lets take a look at games that are the same size as Uplink:
Doom 2 (plus an expansion or two)
Quake 1
hmmm, cant think of any more that ring in around the 30-60 meg limit, its been so long.

What I can say is: I cannot remember a day that Quake, Doom or any of the like crashed on me. Not to say that they didn't, but I surely can't recount a time they did. Both more complex and more demanding in the graphical department as well.


Apparently you didn't understand what I said (not that I am surprised). Listen carefully now. . . This was developed by an independant game company. Independant games tend to be, by their nature, more buggy and less refined than those that come from a larger company. Comparing Uplink to Quake or Doom in this way is simple stupid.


I enjoy playing this game in 'real time'. I'll afk for an hour or two to get some stuff done around the house, and come back to check on the news side of things, or finish a hack job I started a while back. So you can see where it would take up to a month at least, to complete any one game.


Well, that is your choice. You cannot blame IV for your choices.


4. Network Code: This, in general is super buggy. If I quit the game on server side, the client side out-right crashes. If I try to reconnect in any way , it crashes. The game is too stupid to remember the last computer I connected to, so I have to type it in each time.


They quite clearly state that the multimonitor function was just a quick hack for the fun of it. They fully admit that it is buggy and can tend to crash the game. Again this is your fault for using it not theirs.


7. Early on, when asked to delete a file from a corp system, I tried using the console commands, because I am indeed a console junky. I used the delete command, but this only wiped every single file out of the system, and not the one I specified. WTFUX? Anyhow, later that game, prior to crashing for whatever reason, I was asked in a later mission to retrieve a file that I had deleted at least 3 game days ago, thus I had to abandon the mission (and like I said, crashed 5 minutes after that anyhow).


That is how the delete command works (it doesn't take any arguments). Again, not a bug, just your fault. The missions are set once they are generated. If you delete a whole server and then take a mission that was to delete a file on that server, it is your fault you cannot complete that mission. That is how it would work in the real world too.

So it seems most of these issues are not bugs as much as your own fault. Rather stupid if you ask me. . .

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