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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:48 pm
by xMs
Flamekebab wrote:
What if the doctors were using old and obsolete techniques and through improvement in their techniques, were able to solve more problems?

I was always under the impression that if something is obsolete,
it is so for a reason, perhaps im being closed-minded?

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:50 pm
by Flamekebab
I don't follow..?

Obsolete because there's something new which works better than the old, not because it is new but because it is better.

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:52 pm
by xMs
Flamekebab wrote:I don't follow..?

Obsolete because there's something new which works better than the old, not because it is new but because it is better.

Sorry obviously took that in wrong, I thought you meant, if the doctors
were to go back, reveiw the obsolete methods, and try to find someway
of implimenting the good areas in them, to help them with current research
or to help with a diagnosis.

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:03 pm
by Stewsburntmonkey
In many schools I see students still being taught cursive hand writing (under the justification that it is faster I suppose). However, few of these schools teach students how to type (or any real computer skills at all). Now which of these skills is going to be of more use in the world beyond school? I would claim computer skills. Schools tend to get caught up in their own little worlds. They test the same things year after year and as long as students score well people are happy.

My view is that things change far too quickly to try and teach people facts and believe that that will allow them to function in the world. Certainly a good many facts need to be understood as there has to be proper foundation constructed on which to build on. However in my view the bulk of school should be focused on teaching people how to learn. That is showing them the tools and methods that will allow them to learn for themselves. It should also be a major aim to allow students to find their areas of interest. There are a great many people who find the straight academics of most educational systems highly unappealing. Perhaps they are more inclined to writing, or other arts, or perhaps social endeavors (like business or marketing or whatever). Most educational systems totally ignore these very important areas of society. I know the best teachers I have had helped me more by helping me find those things I liked than they ever did by teaching me facts and figures.

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:07 pm
by exosyphen
That's a good NHS.
Here, people pay for it (forcedly) and get NOTHING in return.

I don't pay for the national health insurrance here.
It costs me 25% of that, to simply make a call to a private clinic and be back in one hour ... all done.

Last year my sister had an accident. An idiot with a bike ran over her. I got called that she was in ER. I went there. She was on a bed with no cover. I had to put some money in the staff's pocket, to get her a blanket. When she wanted to use the bathroom, there was no paper, soap, or anything similar. Again, I had to buy those.
The room she was in, smelled like hell.
It was about 4m by 4m, and there were 5 patients there.

So what's the point in paying for that?

She also had a health issue. After 4 months of going to hospitals, nothing was solved. I haven taken things into my hands, and scheduled her to my private clinic. They figured it out and cured her in a matter of 1-2 days.
It all costed less then what she pays monthly for health insurrance.

Ever seen one of those 3rd world hospitals in movies? Those are pretty real here, in Romania's 3rd largest city.

So STOP complaining. As long as you wait one hour, but you get serviced, that's fine. How about : pay, wait, and get NOTHING?

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:58 am
by Rkiver
I agree with Stews regarding the "learning to learn" rather then just plain repeating facts that are shoved into your head. Most of what you learn in school is useless outside of school, depending on what you go into in later life that is. But for the most part are you really going to need to know the obscure date of a small skirmish in outer Mongolia? No.

That being said most examinations do not measure intellectual ability, just the ability to regurgitate facts. There is no perfect education system. All have perks over others. But I still maintain that American education is a little to "US centric", I mean what is it 40% cannot find Canada on a map?

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:25 pm
by Ozymandias IV
I think it was something like %25 can't find the U.S. on a map. The fact that they can't find Canada isn't because the education is US-centric, it's because they're stupid.

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:37 pm
by Stewsburntmonkey
Or just that geography isn't taught much anymore. . .

I always question those statistics though. Living in America I find it hard to believe that many people can't find the US or Canada on a map.

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:41 pm
by exosyphen
I know almost all countries position on the map. Worst case : I will at least tell on which side of the globe :)

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:43 pm
by Icepick
I would say that anyone who can't find the US or Canada on a map is just an idiot.

Having said that though, despite what you'd think, Geography doesn't really TEACH where things are on the map. It doesn't in the UK anyway, I can't speak for the US.

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:44 pm
by Ozymandias IV
We never really had a class specified towards geography, but we still know where most things are on a map, and I also question those statistics. I think sometimes they are misinterpereted. Actually, IIRC, the one that I said was wrong. It was identifying the shape of the USA.

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:28 pm
by doormat
The cartesian projection destorts the edges of the map.

Doesn't matter: The system was designed to have the meridian line through the middle: it only destorts the poles and canada.

The americans put america in the middle of the map. So russia is freaked. :roll:

I guess the americans who were asked "where is america?" were shown a real cartesian map: it would look totaly diffrent than the one they had on the wall of their classrooms and would not have america in the middle (and russia would have totaly changed shape). That would confuse me too.

The issue of why americans feel they need to fuck up the map just to put america in the middle is one best left in another thread, for fear of angering the Mighty Stews. :wink:

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:43 pm
by Stewsburntmonkey
Most nations put themself in the middle of the map. . . Same reason the Prime Meridian runs through the UK, there is no natural reason for it to do so other than the fact that more than 2/3s of all nautical maps used it as such (because they were English). Nearly all European maps likewise have Europe at the center of the map.

One interesting type of map is this one (after all why do all we Northern Hemisphere people feel the need to be on the top of the map?):


Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:48 am
by exosyphen
It's all a matter of perspective :)

The stupidest person I have ever met, was this guy who was a friend of mine for like 10+ years. During the last total eclipse, he stated that the sun revolvs around the earth. And he was serious on that. Took me an hour to explain him, why not :)

And Btw ... Nobody is on the middle of the map. The surface of a sphere has no middle point :)

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:33 am
by ruhoward
exosyphen wrote:And Btw ... Nobody is on the middle of the map. The surface of a sphere has no middle point :)

good point. or everyone is on the middle of the sphere. :)