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ChicksWithGuns
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Postby ChicksWithGuns » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:51 pm

you'll have to explain that one to me because I'm not quite sure I understand it. Yellow and lines across their faces? 5 TV channels? What's the TV channels have to do with a game...
Maybe it's my english...
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doormat
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Postby doormat » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:08 pm

Televisions work diffrently in America (and canada). You have more channels, but the quality of each channel is lower. There are fewer lines on each screen, and the picture quality is lower (hence the lines on the face and the yellow skintones.) If you just plug a UK tv into the co-ax out there, it won't work.

That used to mean that consoles (like the nes and the master system) had to be built diffrently to work.

Now, consoles work exectly the same on both systems, and most US tv's can handle the higher quality images (some cable channels use PAL). But the games companies build the mechines so they arn't interchangeable, because it gives them a competative tool.

GTA.SA is only out here on PS2. It isn't on x-box yet because sony paid rockstar a lot of money to ensure that it wouldn't be. If we could buy it from the US, that would be impossable without delay in release everyware, which would cost Sony too much money. That sort of deal is why they don't change it. DVD's are region-encoded the same way.
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ChicksWithGuns
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Postby ChicksWithGuns » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:23 pm

Well, I think the quality of the image is due to the quality of the TV you have. I have one that has a fair good quality image, I have over 900 digital chanels and I'm not bothered with lines in the tv screen. Of course, I can't compare it to a plasma tv where the image is way too real.
It's true that if you go at a TV shop, you'll have rows and rows of Tv working so that you can compare the image and yes, some will display yellow tone skin but again, I think it's the quality.
I don't know, I've never be to the UK to watch a "telly" show. :)
Last edited by ChicksWithGuns on Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby doormat » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:31 pm

NTSC is the american system. PAL is the eurpean system. NTSC has 525 lines, PAL has 625. The frequencies are diffrent too. The French use one called SECAM, but it's 625 - basicaly the same, and almost all PAL tv's can also do SECAM.

(National Television System Committee, Phase Alternating Line and SEquential Couleur Avec Memoire if your interested :) )
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Postby Rkiver » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:00 pm

In short, PAL is better quality. NTSC is not that good.
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Stewsburntmonkey
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:24 pm

The main advantage of NTSC is that it has a higher refresh rate (fps for gamers) so flicker is much less of an issue than on PAL and SECAM sets (NTSC => 59.94 hertz, PAL/SECAM => 50 hertz). 60 hertz is the general frame rate beyond which flicker is not generally detectable by the human eye. :)
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Postby doormat » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:01 pm

Ah, but newer PAL tv's can show 60Htz...

NTSC or PAL; ITRW, most people can't tell the diffrence in a blind taste test.
Last edited by doormat on Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The GoldFish
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Postby The GoldFish » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:03 pm

I was under the impression standard CRT televisions displayed things in 2 passes.

This is me naively believing my parents so, feel free to ignore me, hehe.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:08 pm

That's actually right, The Goldfish. They display interlaced frames. That is they display the odd lines of the frame on one pass and the even lines on the next. This doubles the frame rate they produce while the eye can't tell the difference (generally). This means you have to cut the figures I gave in half if you are talking about full frames per second (as opposed to scans per second).

As TVs are moving to HD the NTSC/PAL thing is becoming a non-issue. :)
Last edited by Stewsburntmonkey on Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ChicksWithGuns
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Postby ChicksWithGuns » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:08 pm

So what does that have to do with playing a game that you ordered from another country on your computer?
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Postby doormat » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:17 pm

ChicksWithGuns wrote:So what does that have to do with playing a game that you ordered from another country on your computer?


doormat wrote:That used to mean that consoles (like the nes and the master system) had to be built diffrently to work.

Now, consoles work exectly the same on both systems, and most US tv's can handle the higher quality images (some cable channels use PAL). But the games companies build the mechines so they arn't interchangeable, because it gives them a competative tool.

GTA.SA is only out here on PS2. It isn't on x-box yet because sony paid rockstar a lot of money to ensure that it wouldn't be. If we could buy it from the US, that would be impossable without delay in release everyware, which would cost Sony too much money. That sort of deal is why they don't change it. DVD's are region-encoded the same way.
If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?
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The GoldFish
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Postby The GoldFish » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:39 pm

Stewsburntmonkey wrote:That's actually right, The Goldfish. They display interlaces frames.
I often wonder if PC monitors do something similar, and if not, why not.

Wouldn't there be truly awful tearing issues if it actually displayed a different frame on each pass though, so really is it in essence displaying 25 different frames a second in a method that cuts flicker?

I assume the actual problem is the duration that the pixels stay light for is the reason 60Hzish is required to keep them constantly bright (except in the case of LCD/Plasma etc where they're held on and thus not needed)
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Postby waldaberz » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:40 pm

I respect the man for being that devoted to his religion, frankly I don't really care about religion and personally I think it causes a shitload of problems in the world, but he was a very peaceful man and gave hope and help to millions worldwide.. RIP man... RIP.
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Postby FrostShard » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:05 pm

As a rule, religion doesn't cause problems. There are very few religions that actually say "Yes, [generic deity] wants you to go and kill everyone who doesn't believe in him."

People use religion as an excuse to do it.
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Postby ToRmEnToR » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:41 pm

Religion is and excuse to violance and disagrement. It's not vital or even useful, so why not ban it?
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