Sexfight (Note: title be deceiving...)

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Mas Tnega
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Postby Mas Tnega » Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:53 am

Yes, a double post, sue me.

FrostShard wrote:Which is basically a long way of saying "Immature does not necessarily always equal bad."
A superior line is "Don't grow up, just mature", which is far more likely to suit your position.

Sorry, but it had to be said.
You're not sorry, you're just adding that word to indicate you're justifying yourself

3) As for your mathematical ramblings, I'm fifteen, and even I've thought about the fact that maths is as much of a theory as religion. 1+1 only = 2 because we (humans) decided it did.
And maths is supposedly the pure science, being entirely factual :P Its assumption currently need not be disproven, as it suits everything we do for it not to be. Unless, of course, we can do everything we already do in 11 dimensional space.

4) Seeing as how you keep going on about it, since when was facial hair an indicator of mental maturity? That's quite possibly the most stupid thing I've heard all week.
I shaved Monday, and the following Wedensday had me squeaking "Meeee!" whenever it was my turn in the eye-toy tournament (part of a society gaming that rarely gets 7 concurrent people (including the society's executive staff, which amounts to THREE, following the president resigning). How do you explain that one, EH?!
Banker
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Postby Banker » Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:00 am

2) Banker, until now I've never had a particularly low opinion of you, but for all your talk of maturity, you seem verging on unable to post without saying "fuck" several times, for no reason other than it sounds big and scary, and insulting the person who thinks differently from you. Usually because they just proved that, once you get down to it, the average twelve-year-old probably is more mature than you.

Sorry, but it had to be said.


No need to apoligise, if thats the way you feel then so be it, Im not offended.

As for my swearing, I know.. But reasons, well, do anyone have a reason for such things, I swear even worse, much worse actually, in my native language. No particular reason either, just the way I grew up, Id guess it's what most people would call a "bad habit."

3) As for your mathematical ramblings, I'm fifteen, and even I've thought about the fact that maths is as much of a theory as religion. 1+1 only = 2 because we (humans) decided it did.


Well, theoretically, in terms of language and words for things (like you could call 2 someting else, like 7, its only 2 cause we call it that) NOTHING is granted, but to be able to communicate at all, people will need a few fixed standards...
But such thinking is pointless and stupid, if not even math can be regarded as facts, then let everyone have his opinon on what everthing is named and is, and after a while, nothing would work anymore.

4) Seeing as how you keep going on about it, since when was facial hair an indicator of mental maturity? That's quite possibly the most stupid thing I've heard all week.


I never said it was an indicator of mental maturity, its an indicator of how grown up you are physically..

Now I better hit the sack, its like 5am here and I just got home..
Me300 wrote:I love how Banker has the uncanny capability cussing all the time while making his arguments.
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Postby ReflectingGod » Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:55 am

And so we continue with the maths thing. OK, I admit to you in the area of counting pens, 1 + 1 does make 2, by definition, but there are areas in maths where 1+1 isn't 2, for various reasons. Maths isn't as clean cut as you think. Most people seem never study maths past the age of about 16, and never get into these areas of maths, and these ignorant people will never understand this deeper side of maths in which things aren't always as expected.
ME!

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**Bibo ergo sum!**
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Postby Rkiver » Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:26 am

When you get into theoretical and quantum maths, that's when 1+1= ? half the time. Facinating to study mind you, you get to study the very basic proofs that others just assume to be true.
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Mas Tnega
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Postby Mas Tnega » Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:59 pm

If I recall correctly, 1 + 1 = 2 is proven similar to this:
You have a number line, and look loosely like this: -3, -2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3
You measure the distance between points 0 and 1 to get get the size of 1.
You add this distance to the distance between 0 and 1.
You arrive at 2.
Therefore, 1 + 1 = 2.

I'm too busy doing computer science to study Maths, and I was too busy getting a D in Further Maths to continue it and learn about matrices, proving e^(iT) = i sin T + cos T (some crap about the Maclaurin series of e^T, sin T, and cos T, yes?), proving the xth root of 1 is not 1, where x is not 1, and all that other stuff they did that I didn't, because I wanted an A in normal Maths (resitting 5 out of 6 modules, and taking a new one as I did).
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Postby FrostShard » Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:02 pm

(Woooh yay 700 posts)

Mas Tnega wrote:
FrostShard wrote:Sorry, but it had to be said.
You're not sorry, you're just adding that word to indicate you're justifying yourself


I really am sorry, I like the guy (as far as it's possible to like someone who you've never met in your life) but I just felt like he was being a bit of an arse :P

As for the 1+1=2 thing, instead of melting innocent brains with the above, can't we just point out that 1+1 doesn't equal 2 in binary? Hah. We win :P

Oh, and about the OR-NOT gate, when I wrote that post I was actually thinking of all that stuff Mas wrote, but didn't want to burden all you lovely people with it. Not just typing the wrong thing.

No, seriously.
Rkiver wrote:So as you see, the average person is a fucking idiot.
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omg no one will read this!

Postby The GoldFish » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:34 pm

Aside from Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle (note RK's post), and the philosophical stance of 'we dont even know if we're real' thus meaning we can't prove anything else is, so as to say, even if we believe it to be true, we aren't certain we exist so niether can we be of our beliefs or the events that may/may not have occured so we can't say for sure it's a fact, we need to look at WHERE 1 + 1 = 2 came from. (Puts it aside from the 'it's 2 cause we said so' suggestion people have put forwards do far)

This is what you (or anyone) did; you observed that when you took 1 pencil, and then another pencil, and then had 2 pencils.

Then you used that observation to apply it to every time that happens in the past, presant or future, and to every other object, tangible or otherwise. And that is an assumption, with a demonstration of its basis - the demonstration actually happened, thus is a fact, the premise of 1+1 always being equal to 2 however is an assumption.

It's like saying, I observed that the earth is round, therefore all planets are round, wherever they are in the universe regardless of when they form. Unless you've checked, it's incorrect to make the statement. Now, it just so happens that pretty much all the planets ARE round, or at least round-ish (the Earth is apparently pear shaped), but it doesn't make it any more or any less likely the next planet we discover will be round.

There's a more mathematical side to it as well. As a very low level example, in chemistry, if you stick 1 Sodium atom in with 1 Chlorine atom, you get 1 Salt molecule out the other end. Obviously, it's *very* easy to pick holes in that, but it's an example of something which can be encountered, as RG and RK said already, at much higher levels of maths and more notably physics (where units, dimensions and quantums tend to be more implicative) than it'd have been likely you'd have been introduced to.

---

It would appear perhaps someone has led you to believe that you can handle a group of eg 3 14 year olds in a different manner from all 14 year olds. The implication there was, by '14 year olds' I meant a group of more than 1, eg all. It doesn't matter how many you have, any one still tells you nothing about the others (as you well know), just like in the 'all' case. So what I was saying was 'You can not cover any group of 14 year old humans with the blanket statement of being immature' (unless of course you observe how mature each of is, which is exactly the same as if you observed every 14 year old's level of maturity, because then you could blanket them all if it was found that they were all immature, and the group didn't change in any way, as there is a finite number of them). Thus, 'you can not say 14 year olds are immature' is every bit as valid as 'you can not say ALL 14 year olds are immature'.

Saying that 'in general' something is so only ever applies to the cases that have been observed, otherwise, like I stated before, it would be an assumption. It is incorrect to make a general statement which applies to all 14 year olds (ie alot of all the 14 year olds are blah) based on your experience of 14 year olds UNLESS you have examined each and every one of them and discovered a strong majority are eg immature.

"And even if I did say so, so what?" Gee, let me think "I see a bunch of quotes, not "facts"". That makes you wrong at a basic level on that point, surely? If you 'didn't mean that one', you have to SAY that, otherwise you're wrong.

"The only thing that remains to be said here, is that you possess a great "gift" to be able to run from all things you cant meet and are clearly wrong in" Sorry, I thought I gave a justification for being a fact for every "quote" I listed when you challenged them being facts. Give me a list of what I'm running from and I'll quite happy respond to it/again for you. It might be better to post why your experience of 14 year olds is somehow all knowing and thus applies to Scareyedhawk. If you're right, it doesn't matter what I say, I can't argue back and be correct UNLESS I break the base of your arguement, or find a logical flaw in your derivation from it, right? If the thing someone makes their points from is wrong, then they have to be wrong in some aspect. Easier than saying the conclusion from said thing is wrong.

I'm trying 'DESPERATLY' with all my nice, mossy examples which I will provide on request. I'm awfully sorry if it looks like I'm trying to confuse you with words, it's just, you shouldn't say what you mean, you should mean what you say. That way you don't introduce errors - example "I didnt say "adult" I said "man", as in grown up.. Go read it again.". I've said it before, every human being can be classed as a man; "A human regardless of sex or age; a person". You can use someone being grown up as justification for calling them a man, you can not use not being grown up as justification for not being a man. See the logic table.

Being grown up would explicitly mean Adult, so really what you mean is you do not consider him as an Adult, which would be anything which has attained maturity (from which comes the age stereotype used for law). ie, someone who is grown up. Hence, you have failed to correctly transfer your opinion to words, therefore what you have said is wrong, regardless of what your opinion was.

I'd say your current arguement basis is your experience of 14 year olds and other young people. This has no relavence to Scareyedhawk, other than to your own opinion of him, which would be less valid than anyone's opinion which was based on relavent information/experience (such as actually *knowing* Scareyedhawk for a length of time). Unfortunately you didn't say things as your opinion, you indicated facts. In addition I'd also say that your numberous linguistic errors has led you down an illogical path to your current conclusions.

*You could change your arguement to something like (presumably your version would involve more swearing? :P) the following, which I think is more along the lines of what you REALLY meant from the start, and if so would be correct and entirely acceptable:
Racism is the association of any features with any group specified by race other than they are a member of that race, though treating a race as a group however, is not racism. From what statistics I've seen (though I shan't tell you where these statistics come from or who they apply to), it could be assumed that in general, Men (ie adult males) commit more crimes than Women do, even though this has no relavence to if they break more non legal rules as well. If you're not capable of breaking stupid rules such as you descibe to get ahead in life then I would suggest you are naïve of how the real world works. Even though you say you do alot of mature things, I believe that stating all these things you do (which are mature things to do) is in itself, immature, since it makes it sound like all you want to do is be an adult for the ego boost, which is what an immature person is out to achieve, even though I have little basis for this other than my experience with 14 year olds and other young people. From this experience, I have found that most people do not reach a state of maturity comparable with the stereotypical mature person until around the age of 17, which is when I would assume anyone I met was an adult, in spite of any legal/religious statement of which. You've continued to respond in a manner which makes me think you're trying to inflate your ego, so it just makes me think I'm more and more correct in thinking you're immature, in conjunction with my thinking you're naïve, of course, even though I've never met you and am basing this wholly on my experience which doesn't necesserily apply to you or what you've said at all. In the mean time I'll misinterpret some of what you say as some more evidence to support my opinion, such as you having put things in your profile a long long time ago, and making more unproven statements as to why I'm more mature than you and saying you have a big ego. Then The_GoldFish comes along and points out in a more explicit way than others already have that what I've actually put in this thread so far looks NOTHING like what he's typing for me right now, even though it's probably what I think I've been saying all along, where as instead I've drawn conclusions from experience which doesn't apply to the people in question and called it fact. And call him an idiot for it.
-- The GoldFish - member of former GIT and commander in chief of GALLAHAD. You could have done something, but it's been fixed. The end. Also, play bestgameever!
ReflectingGod
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Postby ReflectingGod » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:13 am

You go Fishy!
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**Bibo ergo sum!**
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Postby Banker » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:52 am

I assume your last post was directed at me, and I told you earlier
I wasnt even gonna keep arguing with you fool..
So why you keep postin shit Im not going to read?

By postin lots of unecessary ramblings & str8 up bollocks with no meaning or purpose to the debate, instead of trying to argue a point trying to confuse things, unable to accept anything as a fixed standard (which would in turn rend any subject or discussion pointless) etc etc, you've already proved yourself utterly worthless in my eyes, so whatever you say now I wont read so dont bother posting it..

I wont argue with fools, no matter if I could best them in a debate, there is no point, they will never acknowledge it, and it is utterly pointless to even push a debate like this on the internet.
Once again, the running in the special olympics thing..

And now you probably gonna do some "oh you back down from debate cause you know Im right" silly shit... So go ahead, post even more shit I wont read.. :lol:
Me300 wrote:I love how Banker has the uncanny capability cussing all the time while making his arguments.
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Postby ReflectingGod » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:08 am

The thing is Banker, you are the only fool here. TGF has put forward a brilliant argument, and you can't fault it. The swearing and insults have only got you so far, and now you realise you have lost the argument, so you are backing out, but pretending that you won, when you got slaughtered.
ME!



Procrastination - Hard work often pays of after time, but laziness always pays off now!



**Bibo ergo sum!**
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Re: Sexfight (Note: title be deceiving...)

Postby whatthebleepady » Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:37 am

ScareyedHawk wrote:How come women always get what they desire?
Because men are suckers(I'm a man, I would know). It happent often. Yeah, life ain't fair. Get used to it. Nothing will ever change.
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Postby coolsi » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:21 am

Banker wrote:str8


Sigh...
Nakatomi is coming
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Postby Rkiver » Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:42 pm

Can I get a P
Can I get a W
Can I get a N
Can I get a E
Can I can a D

And Banker is well and truely, PWNED.


Banker this is something you cannot win, I have not seen The GoldFish post so much in quite a long time. For you to manage to get that out of him is truely impressive, as your level of clear idiocy has shown. Not even I have ever sunk to the depts you have, not even Luigi30 or beno can match your....your....I can't even think of a word.

Damn.
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ToRmEnToR
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Postby ToRmEnToR » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:45 pm

Just finished reading the whole deal TGF - banker argument, and all I have to say is:

Too much Double and triple negitives, too much text, my head hurts.

Oh did I mention that my body tempeture has been 39.2c for 2 days now?

But with good will, I managed to understand all of TGF's arguments after re reading them a few times...

Even in my weakest hour, I'm still more preceptive than banker. Yay. *dies*
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Postby Darkshine » Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:21 pm

As far as I'm concerned, if I have 1 carton of Ribena, and someone gives me 1 more carton of Ribena, I got myself 2 yummy cartons of sugary goodness.

At the end of the day, no matter what theoretical mathematics you use for argument, 1 + 1 will always equal 2x1, surely. so thats 2 right? Fine, gimme all that 'what if its 1.5' or whatever crap, but if you make the sums clear enough, it equals 2.

Isn't that just common sense? :?

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