The end of riligion?

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Jackmn
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Postby Jackmn » Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:31 pm

I'm fairly certain the bible makes it clear that worshipping other gods is unacceptable.
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Postby Rkiver » Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:36 pm

I think that's the first commandment.

There is nothing wrong with religion as long as you do not force it down other's throats or use it as an excuse for anything else, like say blocking same sex marriage rights?

Some people need religion, they need to have that faith, others don't. It's a simple as that. I for one like the religious diversity of the planet, I jsut cannot stand the extremists from any religion, they tend to annoy me.
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Postby Jackmn » Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:11 pm

I don't mind religion as an area of research.

I absolutely detest it when people actually believe in it.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:20 pm

It is generally recognised that the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic Gods are one and the same. Who is to say that the Hindu gods are not just aspects of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God? Most Eastern religions believe just this. I don't believe that this belief in any way precludes the worship of a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. People are flawed, religion cannot escape those flaws any more than any other organizations, however it does provide a great service to the world which most organizations can't.

Detesting those that believe is worse than forcing religion on people. You are driven by hate, at least the missionaries are generally driven by love. While I can't stand those who pervert religion to suit their own agenda, most religious people are wonderful. I think making such a blanket judgement about all religious people is rather silly.
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Postby danielwellsfloyd » Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:40 pm

Syrtis wrote:If you ask me.....religion is one of the dumbest ideas ever started by man kind...if you haven't guessed by now....I'm an atheist. Now....I grew up until now as a Christian, never had much of a problem with it, until now - cause now I see how horrid Religion can be. Religion is the cause of more than half the wars fought in history (one of the most devastating being World War II, which was fought because that Damned nazi Hitler was killing people cause they were "inferior". especially jewish people) But anyway....off that. Now, you may think that since I was a christian and now an atheist that I find something deeply wrong with Christianity...well, you're right on the money. The thing I thought I hated about Christianity was that if anyone spoke out against their religion in older times...they were killed. However I recently found out that Jewish people, and Muslims also have a history of doing this. However....what CHRISTIANS DO DO, something that other religions generally don't, is hire MISSIONARIES!!!! god damnit i hate missionaries. With christians....they go to places where there is no religion (oh the paradice that must be) and CONVERT people into christians!!! they do so by being sneaky...and opening such things as schools in places of poverty where there would otherwise not be any schooling and say "you have to be christian to go to this school". Now this is just SICK. Christians say they want WORLD PEACE...do they expect to do this by turning everyone into a damned CHRISTIAN!? arg.

Its seems that most of the time....one religion thinks that they are better than any other religion....take christianity for example....they send out missionaries to "save" the people who don't believe in God (like me), so that they won't have to go to hell and live the afterlife in eternal suffering. well...that pretty much says that Christianity is what is true and that no other religion (bhuddism, hinduism, judaeism) nothing is existant but christianity. so that pretty much means that they don't accept others' beliefs....so christianity is kinda contradictory. Now...know this everyone, just cause I'm an atheist myself and have a lot to say against christianity does not mean I hate christians....

Well, that's my rant for this one, later :twisted:


You are summarizing all Christians into one group? There are many different sects, and not all of them do the things which you claim. Latter-day Saints, for example, Don't believe you're going to burn in Hell if you don't belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Guess what I am yet? (: Yes, Latter-day Saints are Christians, as a Christian is anyone who worships Jesus Christ. Latter-day Saints don't create schools where only Christians can attend. The three locations of BYU are mostly Latter-day Saint, but anyone can attend.
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Postby Rkiver » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:30 pm

Any sect that requires you to go out and try and recruit people tends to be viewed with suspicion. Church of the Latter Day Saints is one that has people going around doing that.

I have nothing against anyone who wants to practice their religions, but actively canvasing for it? That just does not sit well with me. It usually spells that something may be wrong to me. Also I personally think that religion should have nothing to do with education, and should be kept for home and places of worship.
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Postby vladimir » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:49 pm

I don't believe in any thing. Am I sacreligious or would I be classified as an athiest?
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Postby Rkiver » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:51 pm

Atheist by definition, heritic or sacreligious by extremist religious nuts.
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Postby ODDin » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:07 pm

Well, religion has always went along education. Perhpas that's because Judaism was the first monotheistic religion (in the west), and for the Jews, education has always been the highest priority, and education went along stdyign the bible (well, the old testament). You can even see it in the language: in Hebrew, "Torrah" (the 1st part of the old testament) is the word for "theory" (btw, there are good chances that the word "theory" itself comes from the word "torrah". I checked that "theory" comes from Greek, but there wasn't information whether the Greek word also came from somewhere).

That tradition came from the time when there was no such thing as atheist. And btw, Syrtis - the places the missionaries came to had religion; they probably believed in their local gods...

And basically, there isn't even so much evil with missionaries - as long as they don't force nobody. Spreading your ideas is generally a good thing. That's what we do on this forums.
There simply weren't other missionaries around, and the Christian ones were pretty persuasive...


Regarding WW2: Well, the roots of the hatred to the Jews do lie in Christianity. You know, Stew, the church declared publicly that it was guilty of that war, and appologized. Surely they know what they are guilty of...


Now...
Syrtis wrote:However I recently found out that Jewish people, and Muslims also have a history of doing this

Pardon, I have to correct you here. The Muslims had the Jihad, true. However, the Jews NEVER did anything like that. In Judaism, there is nothing about bringing other people into Judaism (either by force, like the Jihad, or more peacefully, like the missionaries).
I admit, there was a "genocide" by the command of God, reagrding:
1) The Amaleks.
2) The non-Jewish people who lived in the land of Canaan by the time the jews arrived there.

That was wrong, true. But the fact remains that in known history, the Jews haven't done any such acts of genocide or any attempts of bringing people into Judaism.





P.S. I'm also an atheist and a materialist, if anyone's interested.
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Postby Rkiver » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:12 pm

I would point out that Dark Ages and the the "religion" tried their hardest to stamp out any independent education that was not theirs.

Religion has done more to hinder education then help it. Plus in todays world religion and education should be seperate. Why? Simple religion is based on belief, not facts. Education should be about the facts, not the beliefs. Now that being said you should perhaps have religious studies where you study religion from an impartial view regarding it's origins and beliefs, but you should not have the religious views of others pounded into your head when you are supposed to be learning.
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Postby ODDin » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:44 pm

I totally agree with that. In the modern world, the education should be seperated from the religion.
However, one should learn about the different religions - like you said, the origins, the hsitory, the rituals... after all, school also should be educationg TOO MUCH to be a complete atheist... you shouldn't go out of school thinking that religion is evil. You should have the right to decide for yourself.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:52 pm

ODDin wrote:Regarding WW2: Well, the roots of the hatred to the Jews do lie in Christianity. You know, Stew, the church declared publicly that it was guilty of that war, and appologized. Surely they know what they are guilty of...


The roots of hatred of Jews predate Christianity. The Egyptians and Romans (and occasionally the Persians) oppressed the Jews before the birth of Jesus. Also the Vatican appoligised for its silence during the Holocaust, that is all. Like I said it was not a religious war, it was racial. Actually nearly all anti-Semetism is racial not religious.

Rkiver wrote:I would point out that Dark Ages and the the "religion" tried their hardest to stamp out any independent education that was not theirs


Although ironically if it were not for the Church nearly all the learning from the pre-Dark Age period would have been lost.
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Postby danielwellsfloyd » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:58 pm

Rkiver wrote:Any sect that requires you to go out and try and recruit people tends to be viewed with suspicion. Church of the Latter Day Saints is one that has people going around doing that.


That would be only a half truth. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not require anybody to go on a mission. It is done volintarily (Did I speel that right?) and with the missionarys' own money. We don't believe that people will be punished for going on a mission, but that they will recieve greater blessings.

P.S. Please try not to call the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the "Church of Latter-day Saints." If you have to shorten the name, please call it the Church of Jesus Christ. (That was supposed to sound like a nice request.) Please consider checking out this link for other misconceptions and corrections.

edit: All this talk about what the Churches did in Medieval times and such does not apply to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We believe in a great aposticy in which the true religion of God and Jesus Christ saw its last breath with the death of the apostles, and that it wasn't restored until the 1820s (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was officially founded in 1830.).
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:05 pm

So I guess refering the LDS Church as the "polygomous crazys in Utah" is not politically correct then. . . :P

Actually in my experience the Later Day Saints are wonderful missionaries. :)
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Postby Rkiver » Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:06 pm

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based on the Moromon beliefs? Ok right there and then I give up on it. Yes there are differences, but come on, the whole basis for that part of Christianity is on even shakier ground then the rest, and that is really saying something.

Now you believe in it, good for you, but can you honestly expect anyone in a scientific frame of mind to take it as true in any way?

That being said, as SBM pointed out, all the members of CJCLDS I have met do tend to be rather nice and polite people.
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