Discussion. another one.

Anything and Everything about Uplink

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Sonnybobiche
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Postby Sonnybobiche » Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:59 am

Coldfire: Consider space analogous to the Coordinate Plane. Just because there are only a few defined points in the plane doesn't mean the plane itself is nonexistant. Nor does it mean that the areas that those points do not take up are nonexistant, or you'd have a very warped plane, wouldn't you?

If I were to grab a box and within it form a perfect vacuum, would the area inside the box become nonexistant? No. It's still an area.

Finally, the thing about nobody disproving it so it may be true....
THAT IS MEANINGLESS. IF IT IS NOT PROVEN, NOR DOES IT HAVE ANY SUPPORTING EVIDENCE, IT IS USELESS.
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Postby Ami Kato » Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:59 am

i guess that could be true... still...

in further dimensions, there may be something palpable, making the bends gravity makes...

You are forgiven and then some. You still have wonderful ideas for your age... nice using the background color, by the way... :)

(Edited by Ami Kato at 10:01 pm on Dec. 9, 2003)
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Postby Coldfire26 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:28 pm

SB: to form a perfect vaccum, you'de have to discard the box. won't you? and everything that serrounds it, as the box still exists, and gives off particles.
and about that proof stuff, think of the proof as numbers, one with NO proof is 0, when i with proof against it is -1 (the smaller the number the more proof against it there is) and something with proof is +1 (Like before, the larger the value the more proof it has), now you can reach an infinite number of -1s and +1s, so you can disproove it and prove is all the time, but it will never be 100% prooven.

Ami: Well, the further dimensions cannot influence whatever things on this world, as that would mean they have points in this plane, and we would have to see them.  

my ideas don't come from age, they come from knowledge (or just Phylosophy), but now, after you know that i'm younger than you, you will probably think of me as a child...

and just for the record, i can talk cursewords in foreign languages too. but i won't. [ahem]

(Edited by Coldfire26 at 2:30 pm on Dec. 10, 2003)
BTW, SBM, do you EVER sleep? i keep sying you on the online list all the time... :P


(Edited by Coldfire26 at 2:34 pm on Dec. 10, 2003)


(Edited by Coldfire26 at 3:54 pm on Dec. 10, 2003)
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Postby Iris » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:38 pm

an idea will only be considered true or untrue if at a certain point it has been irreversably proven to be so. just because an idea has no proof doesn't mean it's not true; it may be true, until you find the proof that will validate (or invalidate) it. unless you do that, there's no saying it's not true. that's simple logic, and it's a universal one at that.

and about the vacuum theory, you boys should really define what you mean when you say vacuum, it's the absence of matter, it's a condition that does not exist.

Coldfire, when you say that as the box still exists, and gives off particles, that invalidates your definition of a vacuum. there is or there's none, 0 and 1.

(Edited by Iris at 12:39 pm on Dec. 10, 2003)
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:39 pm

So this box is radio active now?  There is no reason for the box to give off particles.  There is not something at every point of known space.  And the Universe and space time are different entities.  The Universe is finite, space time, as far as we know, is not.  :)
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Postby Coldfire26 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:45 pm

SBM: :P it doesn't have to be radioactive to lose atoms...
hmm, you also can't have real vaccum in the box, because the box exists, thus inside the vaccum there is existence.

Iris: i was expecting the full word translation of what Ami said before... :P
I never said it was right, just that it wasn't 100% wrong.
0  is vaccum. 1 is not vaccum, 1/Inf is not vaccum.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:53 pm

From the walls of the box on is a vaccum, that should be obvious.  What will cause it to loose atoms?  And since the space inside can be divided infinitely is the box going to loose infinite numbers of atoms?  These little nit picking objections are unnessessary and are very bad form, I wish you would stop with them.
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Postby Iris » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:01 pm

i agree. trying to define the given and then blurring your train of thought with these unrelated probabilities is like stepping on your own toes. it's folly.
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Postby Coldfire26 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:05 pm

it can be divided infinatly, but we are talking about the box not the othe stuff. anyway, we should really count those things as 'strctures' but as matter, without any senceless division whatsoever. what gives us the right to call the box 'box'? how is it diffrent from other objects? in its base its all atoms, protons and nuetrons, etc. (there are probably infinite existing small particles, thus every particle isn't an individual, so the individual is infinetly small. (1/Inf) but that doesn't matter, as it is still a piece of existence).
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Postby Jackmn » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:15 pm

Again, you're deviating from your argument and delving into semantics.

The space inside this box is a vacuum, and yet logic would show it exists. Now, explain how it doesn't.
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Postby Coldfire26 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:20 pm

there is nothing to exist.
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Postby Stewsburntmonkey » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:27 pm

Space is not something that exists, that is what we are trying to say.  There is nothing there, but it is still space, meaning something can be there.  For space not to exist there would have to be a point where nothing can exist, ie a point where matter and energy cannot ever be.  Such a point does not exist, as far as we know.  Logically such a point cannot exist.  
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Postby Coldfire26 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:37 pm

something may exist there, until that point, it cannot be counted as real.
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Postby Katana Steel » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:41 pm

Then we'll have an infinete number of points where
matter may start to exist that are not real.

If they are not real how can you fill it with matter?

(Edited by Katana Steel at 2:42 pm on Dec. 10, 2003)
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Postby Coldfire26 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:48 pm

It isn't real, but it CAN be real. defining that is like defining the concept of '1'.
here: 1(something) + 0(nothing) = 1 (something that filled nothing)


(Edited by Coldfire26 at 3:55 pm on Dec. 10, 2003)
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