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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:56 am
by Agent Rebellion
lol This topic looks like its on the edge of getting into a full blown argument. It doesn't matter who's a cracker and a hacker, they both gain illegal access to information, and they both enjoy doing so, lol. And on the point of information being kept from them for their own good, I suppose it is the case of "At own risk" hackers know they are accessing information not meant for them so it is at their own risk that they read it. Crackers like the thrill of getting into somewhere they are not allowed but this is still at their own risk. No matter the distinction between the two, they're both still going somewhere not allowed lol and who of us hasn't? ;)

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:59 am
by Dezmond
That is the point. Hacking is not illegal. Hackers do not do anything illegal. Crackers and script kiddies do.
Hacking is the art of bypassing security to gain knowledge about how it works.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:05 am
by andrewas
Quote: from Dman on 8:53 am on July 18, 2003[br]
Not just now though, as the site is currently temporary and undergoing renovation. However, in about 3 weeks the new site will be finished with new updated and corrected tutorials.


Generaly people dont advertise sites until the content bears at least some resemblance to the finished site.

Also, by then, Molten Mainframes Application should be finished and available for download.


In three weeks you intend to write an entire OS from scratch in C++?

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:08 am
by Agent Rebellion
lol but lets face it, they both like going somewhere not allowed. If you see a sign saying "Private, no entry" or "No access" You immediately think "ooo whats in there?" followed by "How can I get in there?" I suppose that hacking/cracking is just the electronic version of humanity's insatiable curiosity, illegal or not. They see a place where information is not accessible and wish to access it for the primary reason that they want to know. Wow, we've turned the topic into a theorists debate lol

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:08 am
by Dezmond
Molten Mainframes Application is now different from Molten Mainframes OS which has been lost to the demons that caused the power on my hard drive to cut out while it was still spinning. Argh! MMA will be quite different but better.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:09 am
by Darksun
Look, I take my definition by what's in the dictionary, and Hacking is defined as 'the act of gaining unauthorised access to a computer system'. I hate the whole cracking/hacking debate, because it doesn't really matter what you call it. And Dman, your full of shit

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:14 am
by Agent Rebellion
Lol I was just having fun having guesses and looking at other people's opinions. Right, wrong, doesn't matter lol I thought I would make a few theories about the subject because the whole hacking thing interests me. I can't programme anything lol and I can't hack. The biggest thing I ever did was got into a teacher file at school. By ACCIDENT lmao but anyway, I guess you would call that cracking. And theories are theories remember, whatever we see a hacker as, they are going to carry on doing it ;)

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:25 am
by Dezmond
Darksun, you're the one full of shit. Do you always believe the dictionary?

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:30 am
by Agent Rebellion
Whoa whoa, don't get too annoyed about it all. It's just a theory discussion after all. No need to have arguments. Anyway, lol the topic will only be closed if an argument starts. Dman, are you a hacker? since, if you are, then you will of course see yourself as the hackers you have described. and Darksun, the dictionary desrcibes a tea-chest as a "chest for carrying tea" which is pretty unhelpful so you can't always go by that lol

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:35 am
by Dezmond
You've got a point. :)
I just get annoyed when people assume the worst. Everyone needs more optimism. :)

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:35 am
by bgreene2001
Quote: from Dman on 9:25 pm on July 18, 2003[br]Darksun, you're the one full of shit. Do you always believe the dictionary?

That the popular usage is, by definition, the correct one is a valid way of looking at things, and dictionarys usually print the popular usage of words (excluding slang).  Another way would be to take the usage of the experts in that field, but they are both valid ways of looking at it.
And I don't really think you can say someone else is full of shit, Dman, considering the whole 'Molten Mainframes' thing.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:38 am
by Agent Rebellion
lol everyone's opinion is a valid way of looking at things, I guess. Unless of course your opinion is seen as irrelevent. lol That takes some getting your head around.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:46 am
by AnthonyS
"Hacker" WAS the turm used to discribe a good programer and such, yes.
But now (weather you like it or now) the definition of a "Hacker" has changed. Deal with it.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:12 pm
by Dezmond
Everyone can live by their own definition. I dont think the definition of hacking has changed and the hackers I have been in contact with certainly dont fit the dictionary's description. The expert definition is always the best as it is the most likely to be accurate.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:33 pm
by Phydaux
Quote: from Dman on 12:12 pm on July 18, 2003[br]Everyone can live by their own definition.
House Elephant, if ;ouch! Shrimp the.

No I don't think my own defination of words will carry me very far.

Quote: from Dman on 12:12 pm on July 18, 2003[br]I dont think the definition of hacking has changed and the hackers I have been in contact with certainly dont fit the dictionary's description. The expert definition is always the best as it is the most likely to be accurate.
I'm sorry, but your romantisised view of the world is irrelevant. The word hacker means a person who uses computers to gain unauthorized access to data.
I got this information from the New Oxford Dictionary of English. They use the British National Courpus, which is a balanced selection of 100 million words of written and spoken English text (equivalent to one person's reading over 10 or 20 years) from the entire planet. It also lists slang and vulgar slang terms, and famous people... like you friend William Gates. You must remember dictonarys don't form the English language. The use of words by people forms dictonarys. A hand-full of people using the old meaning of a word won't change the meaning of it.