prisoner into guard program. IDEA

[max prisoner]

i have a new game feature to add. if prisoners would like to reduce there time. then they could go through the guard program. which would make them be able to work as a part time guard for the prison. they can not go into the armory for they are still a prisoner who is just working in the prison. same with the security room. but if they bring contraband into the prison, then they will be punished and fired for doing it. but when they pass the program. they can go to the luandry and pick up a guard uniform for work. they will help detain other prisoners and help with reception and other guard things.


tell me what you think. i would like to see this in game.

[montolh15]

this doesnt really make sense. A prisoner becoming a guard will only make him a target (perhaps worst than the snitches). It is in a sense turning their backs on their fellow prisoners. Another thing would be this is not realistic and not practical.

[Navarro]

Among correctional security staff, there's a phrase: "never trust a trustee." In the old days, programs very directly similar to what you describe did sometimes exist, and the consequences of that program absolutely outweighed the benefit. Roles and allegiances became confused, and it lead to the era of "criminals watching criminals." You might think this simply refers to prisoners standing guard over other criminals, but it was more of a perception of the change in behavior of the actual guards. That is, the "us vs them" attitude on which they previously relied became confused, because "us" now sometimes included "them." Many officers then became "friendly." They'd look the other way when their fellow "guard" inmate would violate a rule, and would be more receptive to the advances of those "guard" inmates. Prisoners were already sometimes masters of deception, which already very often resulted in disastrous consequences: guards being manipulated into turning on other guards for instance. Common examples might be black inmates telling black guards of the supposed secret racism of a white guard, or telling a by-the-book officer of the supposed corruption of another officer. Prisoners often say "this is my house," and believe it's they that truly run things, and because of their deceptive capabilities, this is largely true.

The guards are too busy being distracted by the nonsense put out there by the inmates to properly perform their duties, the guard supervisors are too busy trying to deal with their "corrupt" and "racist" guards to be doing what they're really supposed to be doing - providing their guards with the support and tools they need to perform their jobs. The medical staff won't listen to the security staff about whether or not an inmate is too dangerous to move from his cell to medical, because the inmates have told the medical staff about how the guards abuse their authority and deny them the medical treatment they require. The board which performs rule violation hearings for the inmates won't adequately punish the inmates because the prisoners have manipulated them into believing they're being framed and abused at all times. They're either being "free cased," or a particular guard keeps writing them up because that guard is harassing them, you see. So, the inmates are being enabled - they can do whatever they like, without concern for consequences. The staff as a whole is too busy being paranoid about one another to just get the job done. You see this represented in-game, but not deliberately. For example, say you construct a 50 capacity dormitory. You could station two guards within that dormitory, constantly patrolling back and forth within. Yet, prisoners are still able to escape from it. Two guards placed inside the dorms should absolutely see any evidence of escape by tunnel before it could come to fruition, but they won't. The same scenario could occur in real life. All the prisoners would need to do is keep the guards distracted - talking to them, fighting among one another, creating false disputes for the guards to resolve, one group standing on one side of the form "suited and booted" (in full uniform and with their shoes on) and another group on the other side (as though they're about to riot/fight one another) and so forth. Meanwhile, one or more inmates could be in the back digging away while the guards are being effectively misdirected.

So that's the situation without "inmate guards," imagine adding that nightmare into the mix. Are you going to station them in dorms, like they were often stationed in real life, in place of actual guards? I needn't even describe the threat of violence and escape which would ensue. Are you going to give them keys and batons to respond to incidents with, or to be patrolling around the facility unmonitored? Will you partner them with real guards so that those guards may keep an eye on them, or perhaps so that the inmate guards can keep an eye on your corrupt, racist guards, so say your inmate guards? In either case, they'll be too busy watching one another to be getting anything done, and even if you don't give them a "watch the other" responsibility, the real guard is still going to be distracted by the inmate guard along side him. I mean, in dealing with a violent incident as a guard, would you rather have an inmate "partner" standing beside you with a baton, or would you rather be dealing with the situation solo?

I've personally experienced the result of an inmate gaining possession of a baton. One of our flanks collapsed during a riot, and an inmate armed himself with a downed officers baton outside of my view, then struck me with it in the back of my head with such force that my strapped-on helmet apparently flew off my head and somehow broke the nose of the inmate in front of me while rendering me unconscious. I woke up in a transportation van being rushed to the hospital, but aside from a concussion I was alright. Whether or not that prisoner had been a "trustee" or just another prisoner doesn't matter - a prisoner is a prisoner. They're under no illusion that they're members of the staff. Never trust a trustee, and certainly never arm them. Even in the old day of inmate guards, you didn't provide them with guard uniforms either. They're not guards - they're prisoners. You need to be able to identity, immediately, who's an inmate and who's a guard, at all times. You'd inevitably end up with guards being assaulted from behind by assumed real guards if not - for instance, a guard fighting an inmate, and the inmate guard just happens to disagree with the actions of the real guard. You'd also inevitiably end up with inmate guards walking right out the gate to freedom at times.

So, I'll tell you what became of the inmate guard program, for the most part - it was disbanded. Variations of it still exists, but rarely is it anything like its past incarnation. You for instance have "dorm reps," who're in charge of micromanaging the dormitories in order to free the guards to perform their security tasks. They'll handle grievances, they'll organize lists for the barber shop, they'll take note of any maintenance needed, they'll handle minor disputes, they'll organize cleaning details, and they'll report to the guard or to social services what needs to be escalated. That is, they'll submit the barber shop list to the guard, inform the guard of issues which need to be relayed to maintenance, or sometimes inform the guard that something needs to be addressed or the temperature of the dorm may result in consequences, sort've like Prison Architect's "Danger" meter. They don't however snitch, but they may "deputize" other inmates handle an issue among inmates. For example, they may rough up an inmate which is causing problems for the others, or they may simply threaten that inmate, causing them to "check out" to PC. Maybe that prisoner is stealing, maybe he's "doing gay shit," and so forth. In this case, the dorm rep is more of a politician than a guard. Depending on the "philosophy" of the guard standing over the dorm, the dorm representative may also organize controlled fights so that inmates can resolve differences, ultimately reducing the "danger" level. The dorm rep may also pool resources for bribes, to ensure the guard overlooks a thing, in example, gambling. If the guard is absolutely corrupt, the dorm rep may also submit bribes for the purpose of ensuring the guard looks away during worse things, such as jumpings, short lived riots, or even murder, rape or escape. Maybe the guard just turns his back, maybe he just walks off for a while, maybe he leaves a door open/gate somewhere - maybe a series of doors/gates along a particular pathway. Maybe the guard isn't even being bribed with money, maybe he's being bribed with food, maybe he's being bribed with protection, maybe he's being bribed with drugs, or maybe she's being bribed with sex - maybe he's being bribed with sex.

The dorm rep is what the "inmate guard" transitioned into, and the role and result of that role isn't all that different from its previous incarnation. The inmate guard was never going to be snitching out their dorm/block nor even another dorm/block. They weren't going to be enforcing rules like an officer, despite that it had been the intended function. Sometimes you'll still see prisoners performing inmate guard type tasks outside of the dorms and blocks, too. An inmate might for example patrol around a cell block, monitoring the welfare of prisoners assigned to suicide watch inside those cells. An inmate is more likely to snitch on another inmate who's attempting to escape through death, but the patrolling inmate still might not report what he sees, so there remains a lot of liability here. There's no place for a "prisoner into guard program" in Prison Architect nor in the real world. Representatives might have a place in Prison Architect, but in the game's current state I'm not sure that I see much of a use for them.

[max prisoner]

i still think its a idea that is a good idea. and this is a video game. not real life.

[montolh15]

Please do tell us why it is such a good idea.

[dareddevil7]

@Navarro Do you know of any instances of other prisoners trying to subdue violent prisoners?